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Re: [Tei-council] Next Stylesheets meeting
by BERMUDEZ SABEL Helena 09 Feb '21

09 Feb '21

Hello! No issues with the proposed date. Best, H. Helena Bermúdez Sabel Chercheuse FNS senior Institut des sciences du langage Université de Neuchâtel ________________________________ From: Tei-council <tei-council-bounces(a)lists.tei-c.org> on behalf of Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger(a)uni-graz.at) <martina.scholger(a)uni-graz.at> Sent: 08 February 2021 18:08:07 To: tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org; Martin Holmes; Nicholas Cole Subject: [Tei-council] Next Stylesheets meeting Dear all, The next Stylesheets meeting is scheduled for February 25, the day of our release. I propose to postpone the meeting to March 4. Please let me know if this works for you. Best, Martina

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PDF build with Japanese
by Martin Holmes 08 Feb '21

08 Feb '21

Hi all, The ruby stuff is now merged into the repo, and I've spent a good few hours now trying to get the PDF to build properly. It dies with this error: ! LaTeX3 Error: The key 'fontspec-opentype/...' is unknown and is being (LaTeX3) ignored. which is something to do with xml:lang='ja' appearing in the source. At one point I got it to build, but without the Japanese language attributes, the characters just come out as square boxes. Can anyone who knows more about LaTeX than me suggest anything? I don't really want to go round removing xml:lang attributes just to get past the PDF problem, but I don't know what else to do at this point. Cheers, Martin -- ------------------------------------- Humanities Computing and Media Centre University of Victoria mholmes(a)uvic.ca

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Next Council call: Feb 11
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at) 08 Feb '21

08 Feb '21

Dear all, This is the preliminary agenda for our next Council call on February 11 at 11am-12:30pm PST/2pm-3:30pm EST/7pm-8:30pm GMT/8pm-9:30pm CET: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1mnUQtzMFTpPfUwoBQX2yo4g_sWeBrHBG4Z2myRK… The zoom link is in the google doc. Best, Martina

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Next Stylesheets meeting
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at) 08 Feb '21

08 Feb '21

Dear all, The next Stylesheets meeting is scheduled for February 25, the day of our release. I propose to postpone the meeting to March 4. Please let me know if this works for you. Best, Martina

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Refrigeration
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at) 08 Feb '21

08 Feb '21

Dear all, We are close to refrigeration, starting on Friday, February 12. After this date we should not commit major changes to the schema. Minor changes like improvements in wording, correction of typos etc. are fine. Please have a look at the open milestone 4.2.0 Guidelines issues (https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues?q=is%3Aissue+milestone%3A%22Guidelines+4…) and 7.51.0 Stylesheets issues https://github.com/TEIC/Stylesheets/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+milestone…. Please remove issues that you will not tackle before the next release. Best, Martina

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positioning of examples vis-a-vis prose
by Bauman, Syd 08 Feb '21

08 Feb '21

Working on ruby glosses, I think it is quite useful to say in the prose of CO things like “the following example” or “the example above”. I note that the “Examples” subsection of the “Style Notes” section of TCW 20<https://teic.github.io/TCW/tcw20.html> (why don’t these <div>s have IDs?) says in the very first paragraph not to do that. However, it is clear to me that the rest of that paragraph is about examples in tagdocs, not examples in the prose of the Guidelines. Furthermore, I think the logic (someone might come along later and add an example) at best does not really apply here in the prose (where being able to differentiate examples is useful), and at worst is basically silly. (I very vaguely remember the argument in favor of this restriction, and begrudgingly agreeing to it; but I cannot find the reasoning that led me to that agreement now, nor can I recall if it was intended for only tagdocs or for examples in the prose, too :-) That said, why don’t we have a mechanism for referring to specific examples?

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Re: [Tei-council] More NVDL issues: Spec files not validating
by Bauman, Syd 05 Feb '21

05 Feb '21

Trying to validate which schema file against which schema? ________________________________ Just trying to validate the schema itself in oXygen.

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Thanks for Ruby feedback
by Martin Holmes 04 Feb '21

04 Feb '21

Hi all, Thanks for the feedback on the location for the Ruby prose. The consensus is clear -- it should be in core -- and the comments suggest that the most appropriate approach will be to integrated it with the content relating to glosses, which is currently in 3.3.4, "Terms, Glosses, Equivalents, and Descriptions". That sub-subsection is already quite long, so what I propose to attempt is this: Take 3.3.4 "Terms, Glosses, Equivalents, and Descriptions" and 3.3.5 "Some Further Examples" and make them into a new subsection (i.e. one level higher), which will become 3.4. Title the new section "Terms, Glosses, Equivalents, Descriptions, and Ruby". (JJ suggests that terms belongs elsewhere, but that would be a major reorg, and I don't think we have time for that right now.) Create subsections: 3.4.1 "Terms and Glosses" covering the first part of what is now 3.3.4. This would also include the "Further Examples" bit, which is really an extension of this. 3.4.2 "Ruby Annotations" containing the new prose already proposed. 3.4.3 "Equivalents and Descriptions" containing the part of what is now 3.3.4 which discusses altIdent, desc, and equiv; I think this is a different topic, really, from glossing terms. I'm doing this work in a separate branch: <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/tree/issue-2054-ruby> which I'll merge dev into steadily as I go, to minimize later merge conflicts. I'll also set up a build job for this branch on my Jenkins when the initial work is done. The time is relatively short, but I think we can get there before the freeze. I'll post the meat of this on the ticket too, for the record. Cheers, Martin -- ------------------------------------- Humanities Computing and Media Centre University of Victoria mholmes(a)uvic.ca

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More NVDL issues: Spec files not validating
by Martin Holmes 03 Feb '21

03 Feb '21

Hi all, Our Spec files (P5/Source/Specs/*.xml) all link to the NVDL schema here: <http://jenkins.tei-c.org/job/TEIP5-dev/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/P5/rele…> That generates an error in itself, because the Jenkins server gives a 308 Permanent Redirect to https. But if you do retrieve the schema and try to validate with it in Oxygen, you get (or at least, I get) the error: IllegalStateException - getSchemaProperties requires a schema I'm not sure why that is -- anybody know? It makes it a bit difficult to work on Spec files. What are people doing to validate their Spec files at the moment? Cheers, Martin -- ------------------------------------------ Martin Holmes UVic Humanities Computing and Media Centre

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Next short VF2F meeting
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at) 03 Feb '21

03 Feb '21

Dear all, During the VF2F meeting this weekend, we agreed to do more short virtual F2F meetings as long as we can't do in-person meetings. Please fill in the doodle for our next short VF2F meeting (end of March / April): https://doodle.com/poll/dc68qph9py96w39f?utm_source=poll&utm_medium=link. The procedure is the same as last time: the North American Group starts on Friday, the European Group continues on Saturday morning and the full Council meets in the "afternoon" (morning for PST and EST). Best, Martina

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issue 2010: <persPronoun>
by Bauman, Syd 01 Feb '21

01 Feb '21

Meg and I plan to finish up work on ticket #2010 on Mon evening 08 Feb (ET), and create a PR at that time. We are hoping it can be reviewed before the Council meeting on Thu 11 Feb. (If you don’t want to wait, see branch megjbrownIssue2010.)

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Jenkins builds failing and not failing
by Martin Holmes 01 Feb '21

01 Feb '21

Hi all, If you look at Peter's Jenkins, you'll see that the TEI-P5-Test-dev job appears to succeed (it's green). However, the console log for the latest build (653) shows 14 errors: <https://jenkins.tei-c.org/job/TEIP5-Test-dev/653/parsed_console/> On my Jenkins, the latest build (547) also fails, but differently: <https://jenkins2.tei-c.org/job/TEIP5-Test-dev/547/parsed_console/> I'm going to try to figure out why my build is failing, but I'm even more puzzled by the main Jenkins, which seems to be giving the impression that all is well. Peter, do you know what's happening here? NVDL errors seem to be ignored. Cheers, Martin -- ------------------------------------------ Martin Holmes UVic Humanities Computing and Media Centre

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Council votes on Ruby in the Guidelines
by Martin Holmes 01 Feb '21

01 Feb '21

HI all, As Elisa points out, Council can't vote on the original ticket because it's not on the main TEI repo, so I've reposted it here: <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/2054#issuecomment-770934282> Please record your preferences for the location of the Ruby introductory prose and other mentions/pointers to it. I'll also check Slack where there's another poll under way. Doesn't matter which one you use. Cheers, Martin -- ------------------------------------- Humanities Computing and Media Centre University of Victoria mholmes(a)uvic.ca

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Will miss the afternoon meeting
by Peter Stadler 30 Jan '21

30 Jan '21

Friends, I’m sorry but I have to apologise for the afternoon meeting. My wife got an appointment she can’t miss and I have to look after the kids. Just wanted to let you know that I’ll miss your (virtual) company and to wish you a productive discussion! Best Peter

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TEI Council VF2F North America
by Hugh Cayless 28 Jan '21

28 Jan '21

Hugh Cayless, Ph.D. is inviting you to a scheduled Zoom meeting. Topic: TEI Council VF2F North America Time: Jan 29, 2021 03:00 PM Eastern Time (US and Canada) Join Zoom Meeting https://duke.zoom.us/j/8407352885 Meeting ID: 840 735 2885 One tap mobile +13126266799,,8407352885# US (Chicago) +16468769923,,8407352885# US (New York) Dial by your location +1 312 626 6799 US (Chicago) +1 646 876 9923 US (New York) +1 301 715 8592 US (Washington DC) +1 669 900 6833 US (San Jose) +1 253 215 8782 US (Tacoma) +1 346 248 7799 US (Houston) +1 408 638 0968 US (San Jose) Meeting ID: 840 735 2885 Find your local number: https://duke.zoom.us/u/abQMVai96I Join by SIP 8407352885(a)zoomcrc.com Join by H.323 162.255.37.11 (US West) 162.255.36.11 (US East) 115.114.131.7 (India Mumbai) 115.114.115.7 (India Hyderabad) 213.19.144.110 (Amsterdam Netherlands) 213.244.140.110 (Germany) 103.122.166.55 (Australia) 149.137.40.110 (Singapore) 64.211.144.160 (Brazil) 69.174.57.160 (Canada) 207.226.132.110 (Japan) Meeting ID: 840 735 2885

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VF2F meeting: Jan 29 and 30
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at) 28 Jan '21

28 Jan '21

Dear all, This is the agenda for our VF2F meeting: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ditQHz4VXEitKZ7IeWO41tgzKZq_LwF0zclXHJF… I think that we first should work on pull requests (with milestone 4.2.0) and Guidelines issues with the milestone "Guidelines 4.2.0" which are still labeled with "Needs Discussion+Go" or do not have a status yet. For the North American Group - please start with whatever you like and fix issues from either or both of the tables. On Saturday the European group will continue. In the full Council session on Saturday we start with the discussion on ruby glosses. Please have a look at the issue and Martin's proposal on prose. Please feel free to add topics that you would like to discuss. Hugh will send a zoom link for tomorrow's meeting. Best, Martina

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Stylesheets meeting
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at) 28 Jan '21

28 Jan '21

Dear all, This is the zoom link for our Stylesheets meeting which starts in an hour https://us02web.zoom.us/j/88017340213?pwd=T3NTWmpFUWNrUWFaeU4zWHBBQUVqZz09 Best, Martina

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Stylesheets meeting in 1 week
by Bauman, Syd 28 Jan '21

28 Jan '21

We are scheduled to hold a Stylesheets meeting on Thu 28 Jan 21 from 19:00Z to 20:30Z. That’s * 11:00–12:30 PST * 14:00–15:30 EST * 19:00–20:30 GMT * 20:00–21:30 CET We have not decided yet on a platform (although it seems to be Zoom vs Google Meet), or who will be hosting. Per last week’s Council meeting, our main topic will be Stylesheets #237<https://github.com/TEIC/Stylesheets/issues/237>. I hope to post a bit of a summary and some thoughts on this issue by the beginning of next week, but not guarantees.

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Question on progress with the ruby work
by Martin Holmes 26 Jan '21

26 Jan '21

Hi all, I'm writing to Council because I need to get some clarity on what Council is aiming at with regard to the ruby markup proposal and the upcoming release. My initial understanding, and the work Syd and I have been doing, was based on the idea that we would really like to get a basic implementation of the new elements into the schema, along with a simple section for the prose chapter, in time for this release; that would allow the Japanese users in particular, who initiated the work, to get started with the markup and begin to work out some of the edge cases. However, the work on the ticket and the repo has become increasingly complexified; Duncan has submitted a set of cases that would stretch the initial implementation considerably and require a much-expanded prose section with many more examples, and this could not be ready for the upcoming release. My personal view is that these cases could be submitted as feature requests for further exemplification and expansion of the chapter prose, which we will need to do anyway, after the initial release, but Duncan is quite determined that he doesn't want to do that. There are also various discussions about multiple methods for doing stand-off ruby markup, some of which look quite flaky to me, and which I wouldn't really want to recommend in the Guidelines; but I'm not a content expert and don't have much authority to wield. As always, there is a lot of tension between the need for the Guidelines to provide straightforward, generic recommendations and the desire for people to see their own preferred approaches sanctioned and exemplified. I need to have something ready for the Council meeting on Saturday, so I'd like to get Council's view on what we're aiming to do right now. I think our options are: 1. Add only the new elements to the schema, with full Spec files and basic examples in them, but without any prose section in the Guidelines. 2. Add to #1 a relative short and straightforward introduction in the prose, with some basic worked examples, but no complicated edge cases, at the same time soliciting feature requests for further work. 3. Give up on getting anything into this release, and instead adopt a working-group approach to build a complete solution before we put anything into a release. My personal preference is for #2, but I don't think it's a decision I can make without Council's backing. Cheers, Martin -- ------------------------------------- Humanities Computing and Media Centre University of Victoria mholmes(a)uvic.ca

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Next Weekend's Council F2F: Timing Question
by Elisa Beshero-Bondar 25 Jan '21

25 Jan '21

Greetings, Council! Next Saturday, January 30, do we have any plans to meet after the times we posted in our minutes, namely: 06:00–10:00 PST 09:00–13:00 EST 15:00–19:00 CET ? I'm pretty sure not, but wanted to double-check as I'm trying to schedule something. Thanks, Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Program Chair of Digital Media, Arts, and Technology | Professor of Digital Humanities | Director of the Digital Humanities Lab at Penn State Erie, The Behrend College Development site: https://newtfire.org

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GitHub PRs
by Bauman, Syd 21 Jan '21

21 Jan '21

Inspired by Nick’s tei_current_assignments.py<https://github.com/npcole/teiutils>, a program that leverages the gitHub API to summarize gitHub issue assignments, I have just spent the entire day trying to write an XSLT program to summarize pull requests. At this point, I have to (at least temporarily) give up. I simply cannot figure out how to get the list of reviewers (those who have been asked to be reviewers, those who have accepted the request to be a reviewer, and those who have submitted reviews) without, at least sometimes, including the OP in that list. (That is, I have yet to figure out an XPath that will select the reviewers without the OP from the JSON-converted-to-XML returned by the “reviews” API call.) If anybody feels like helping me out, I think we would find this a useful utility. To prove the point, I generated one possible useful output (an HTML table) using my current mildly broken code, and went through and fixed the output by hand. (Sigh.) See https://bauman.zapto.org/~syd/temp/4TEICouncil/GHPRs.html. Talk to y’all tomorrow.

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shift of validation need deprecation?
by Bauman, Syd 19 Jan '21

19 Jan '21

I am hoping to close several tickets, including #2062<https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/2062> very soon. This one “needs discussion”, IMHO, only on the issue of whether or not deprecation is required. Could folks weigh in on the ticket, please? Issue: the @key attribute of <specDesc> is optional in the schema, but required by the Stylesheets. The request is to require it in the schema, too. Decision (unilateral, by me): yes, we should make @key of <specDesc> required by the schema. Question: Do we have to provide deprecation for this change? Discussion 1: The <specDesc> element “indicates that a description of the specified element or class should be included at this point within a document”. The @key attribute is the only mechanism by which the element or class you want to be included can be indicated. Therefore a <specDesc> without a @key is not doing what it is supposed to do. Currently, a <specDesc> without a @key passes validation, but then when processed by the Stylesheets the message “ERROR: no key attribute on specDesc” is generated (by Stylesheets/common/common_tagdocs.xsl); processing continues, and the spot where the @keyless <specDesc> occurred is simply blank in the output HTML. Discussion 2: We have decided in the past that, in general, changes that break backward compatibility should be deprecated. (I.e., users should get a warning, not an error, for 6 months to 2 years before the feature is changed to an error.) My opinion (on the question “Do we have to provide deprecation for this change?”): Emphatically not, this is a corrigible error. The change only effects when the user gets an error message, not if. One of the main reasons to have schema validation is to catch errors before you get to the processing stage. Discussion 3: One (especially a new member of Council) may well ask, why did I even bother raising this question? The answer is an abundance of caution. The question of whether or not a change need be deprecated is often an issue with disagreement within Council. I have a (well deserved) reputation for having a high threshold for requiring deprecation; others (including Peter and Martin) have a reputation for a much lower threshold. Thus it makes sense to make sure that I am not the only one who thinks this does not need deprecation.

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tei_customization the shunned step child
by Bauman, Syd 18 Jan '21

18 Jan '21

Is there a reason that tei_customization.rn[cg] are not showing up in https://jenkins.tei-c.org/job/TEIP5-dev/lastSuccessfulBuild/artifact/P5/rel… Am I looking in the wrong place? BTW, where in the lastSuccessfulBuild hierarchy does one look for the .isosch files?

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Meeting in 25 minutes
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at) 14 Jan '21

14 Jan '21

Von: Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger(a)uni-graz.at) Gesendet: Montag, 11. Jänner 2021 23:25 An: tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org Betreff: Next Council meeting: Jan 14 Dear all, This is the agenda for our next meeting on Thursday, Jan 14 at 11am-12:30pm PST/2pm-3:30pm EST/7pm-8:30pm GMT/8pm-9:30pm CET (please double check the meeting times in the google calendar): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ofn0oIgmP5yyuCCfu4NF0Jw8lmNRMN44FN8gwsc…<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ofn0oIgmP5yyuCCfu4NF0Jw8lmNRMN44FN8gwsc…> Please add topic that you would like to discuss. The zoom link is in the google doc. Best, Martina

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Next Council meeting: Jan 14
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at) 11 Jan '21

11 Jan '21

Dear all, This is the agenda for our next meeting on Thursday, Jan 14 at 11am-12:30pm PST/2pm-3:30pm EST/7pm-8:30pm GMT/8pm-9:30pm CET (please double check the meeting times in the google calendar): https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ofn0oIgmP5yyuCCfu4NF0Jw8lmNRMN44FN8gwsc… Please add topic that you would like to discuss. The zoom link is in the google doc. Best, Martina

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