Thank you, Peter. So sweet. (And I'm not going to *try* to take it
down. Just worried.)
Peter Stadler writes:
> Re question 1)
> There’s also https://roma.tei-c.de/ but that’s pointing at the same
> instance as https://roma2.tei-c.org/. But I think the bottleneck is
> OxGarage which might choke on multiple concurrent requests. So, I
> updated my OxGarage stack (which roma2 uses) to run three instances
> (behind a load balancer) — just for you, Syd :) I’d be happy to get
> some feedback about whether and how you were still(?) able to bring
> it down.
1
0
test
by Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger＠uni-graz.at)
06 Mar '19
I am teaching a class on TEI schemas Fri 03-08 10:00/12:00-05:00.
At the moment
* https://tei-c.org/tools/roma/ does NOT work
* https://roma.tei-c.org/ does NOT work -- bad certificate
* https://roma2.tei-c.org/ does work
Question 1: Are there other instances of Roma runinng that I might
use? Does anyone happen to have one up? (I used to have
one at Brown, but never set it up at Northeastern.)
Question 2 (mostly for Raff): Bad or good idea to show them RomaJS?
Hello Council,
Now that the new release is (mostly) behind us (thanks Elli, Hugh, at al!),
I wanted to give you a quick update about RomaJS and attempt to schedule a
call for the second week of February to discuss development and get started
on planning user testing.
DOODLE for meeting: https://doodle.com/poll/8p7exq3vptpb8g9t
I've just updated the demo at http://mith.us/romajs. Feel free to try it
out and let me know what's broken.
I've been using waffle.io to keep track of GitHub issues and I found it
very helpful to make sure what I do is reflected as much as possible into
GitHub. The board is public and accessible here:
https://waffle.io/TEIC/romajs
If you have permissions on Github for TEIC, you will also be able to do
stuff here if you log in.
All of this is also available on GitHub issues, I just like the kanban
style of waffle.
To get a summary of what I've been working on since mid-December have a
look at the "Done" column on the right. Here's a couple of highlights:
- Create new classes and new elements in custom namespace
- Implement revert to source button
- Update material components web (you'll notice that the UI is pretty much
the same but a little slicker)
- Split updateOdd reducers (huge task with little practical effects, but
that has greatly affected code readability)
Please fill in the doodle and don't hesitate to ask questions here or on
slack (there's a romajs channel).
Thank you!
Raff
Hi all - I have notes that include improvements to tcw22 from the latest
release experience. (The Raven...) Should I go ahead and edit?
what is the protocol? --elli
If I understand Raff's suggestion correctly, then I would support the restrictive approach to only allow users possibilities of making dataTypes that 'Make Sense'. If they want to do something so weird as put an elementRef into the content of a dataSpec then they clearly should understand it well enough to be hand-editing their ODD, and then explain to us why it should be allowed in RomaJS. (But generally, RomaJS doesn't have to do everything that is possible, but only what we recommend people do.)
Many thanks,
James
--
Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings(a)newcastle.ac.uk
Senior Lecturer in Late-Medieval Literature and Digital Humanities
School of English, Newcastle University
________________________________
From: Tei-council <tei-council-bounces(a)lists.tei-c.org> on behalf of Syd Bauman <s.bauman(a)northeastern.edu>
Sent: 02 February 2019 12:04
To: lou.burnard(a)retired.ox.ac.uk; TEI Council
Subject: Re: [Tei-council] dataSpec content
[Trying to channel Raff, who is probably still asleep.]
1. Actual content model (that Raff was discussing -- i.e., a model
against which all of our current dataSpec/content elements are
valid):
( dataRef* | valList | textNode | aDr | avL | atN )
aDr = element alternate { dataRef* }
avL = element alternate { valList }
atN = element alternate { textNode }
2. No, Raff was not suggesting any change to content models, only to
his user interface in RomaJS.
But now that you point it out, it would probably make sense to
disallow at least <empty>, <anyElement>, <elementRef>, & <classRef>,
and probably even <macroRef> from the <content> of a <dataSpec>.
> Firstly, I dont understand your pseudocode content model. Does it
> mean the same as the following:
>
> <alternate minOccurs="1" maxOccurs="undefined">
> <elementRef key="dataRef"/>
> <elementRef key="valList"/>
> <elementRef key="textNode"/>
> </alternate>
>
>
> Are you proposing to change the current content model of <content>
> or of <dataSpec> ?
>
> In either case, I suggest defining a class model.dataSpecPart might
> help.
>
> Or is it just about how selective your interface should be in what
> it permits, perhaps as a not-so-subtle way of avoiding the
> question?
>
> Current practice in defining dataSpecs is constrained by what was
> done in P4: I re-used the <content> element here because we also
> used it to define the expansion of macroSpecs (i.e parameter
> entities) back in the day, but that's a historical explanation.
> This over-generates, as you rightly say: it's not at all clear what
> it might mean to put e.g. an elementRef into the content of a
> dataSpec!
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Syd: To clarify, yes #2, get rid of them, but I'm not going to worry about it too much if you don't. ;-) Apologies for my confusion.
Many thanks,
James
--
Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings(a)newcastle.ac.uk
Senior Lecturer in Late-Medieval Literature and Digital Humanities
School of English, Newcastle University
________________________________
From: Tei-council <tei-council-bounces(a)lists.tei-c.org> on behalf of Syd Bauman <s.bauman(a)northeastern.edu>
Sent: 02 February 2019 12:21
To: Lou Burnard; TEI Council; Martin Holmes
Subject: Re: [Tei-council] Stylesheets: rub out tei: prefix?
Four of you have still not voted.
summary so far
------- -- ---
1) I very much want to get rid of the "tei:" prefix in XPaths
2) I prefer to get rid of them, but don't care much
3) It makes no difference to me, mate
4) I prefer to keep them, but don't care much
5) I very much want to keep the "tei:" prefix in XPaths
SB: 0 (My vote is weighted :-)
EB: 1
LB: 4 ?
HC:
JC: 2 (Said "4", but seems to have meant "2")
MH: 1
VJ:
EM: 4
MS: 5
PS: 5
SS:
MT:
RV: 5
That's a total of 27 in 9 votes, for an average of exactly 3! Thus
the remaining 4 votes will likely be the deciding ones ... what a
nail-biter!
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Just to point out an option that Syd didn't suggest:
- Use both prefix and xpath-default-namespace. This gives you the tei: prefix when you want to use it, but if you forget, defaults to the TEI namespace anyway.
This is, of course, a _horrible_ idea for which I hope there is no support. Except if we were adopting a process of gradual conversion from prefixed to not.
However, I would point out that xpath-default-namespace is used throughout the Stylesheets repository so that we are *already* inconsistent in our practice. So really we're already doing my horrible idea, though not commonly in a single stylesheet but more metaphorically throughout the repository as a whole.
c.f. https://github.com/TEIC/Stylesheets/search?q=xpath-default-namespace&unscop…
Many thanks,
James
--
Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings(a)newcastle.ac.uk
Senior Lecturer in Late-Medieval Literature and Digital Humanities
School of English, Newcastle University
________________________________
From: Tei-council <tei-council-bounces(a)lists.tei-c.org> on behalf of Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger(a)uni-graz.at) <martina.scholger(a)uni-graz.at>
Sent: 04 January 2019 19:14:00
To: Elisa Beshero-Bondar; Lou Burnard
Cc: TEI Council; Martin Holmes
Subject: Re: [Tei-council] Stylesheets: rub out tei: prefix?
Hi all,
I usually use prefixes. So I would prefer option 5.
Martina
Von: Tei-council <tei-council-bounces(a)lists.tei-c.org> Im Auftrag von Elisa Beshero-Bondar
Gesendet: Freitag, 4. Januar 2019 19:48
An: Lou Burnard <lou.burnard(a)retired.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: TEI Council <tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org>; Martin Holmes <mholmes(a)uvic.ca>
Betreff: Re: [Tei-council] Stylesheets: rub out tei: prefix?
And it's one more thing to forget! Life's challenging enough. When you have an opportunity to use a default namespace, why not use it?
E :)
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:47 PM Lou Burnard <lou(a)ox.ac.uk<mailto:lou@ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
(which is what I do, btw)
they're only pesky if you forget them!
On 04/01/2019 18:45, Mylonas, Elli wrote:
you can always abbreviate to a single letter...
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:43 PM Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebb8(a)pitt.edu<mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu>> wrote:
I will take this opportunity to express surprise that so many of you like those pesky prefixes! Forgetting to use them drives me mad--think of occasions in writing XSLT where it's just so many extra keystrokes and one thing more to debug. Anyway, happy new year, you namespace-prefix-lovers!
Elisa
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:41 PM Mylonas, Elli <elli_mylonas(a)brown.edu<mailto:elli_mylonas@brown.edu>> wrote:
Hi all - I tend to prefer tp see namespaces expressed explicitly. But agree with James that Syd is the one groping around in the code. So 4 or 5 for me.
--elli
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 11:44 AM James Cummings <James.Cummings(a)newcastle.ac.uk<mailto:James.Cummings@newcastle.ac.uk>> wrote:
Hi all,
I simultaneously agree that explicitness is good and tend to use xpath-default-namespace all the time myself. I also remember learning from Sebastian that you *always* check namespaces first when something goes wrong. ;-) But since ODDs are always written in TEI (even non-TEI ODDs), it makes sense to me to use default namespace for TEI. I'd vote 4.
Many thanks,
James
--
Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings(a)newcastle.ac.uk<mailto:James.Cummings@newcastle.ac.uk>
Senior Lecturer in Late-Medieval Literature and Digital Humanities
School of English, Newcastle University
________________________________
From: Tei-council <tei-council-bounces(a)lists.tei-c.org<mailto:tei-council-bounces@lists.tei-c.org>> on behalf of Lou Burnard <lou(a)OX.AC.UK<mailto:lou@OX.AC.UK>>
Sent: 04 January 2019 15:07:27
To: Raffaele Viglianti; Elisa Beshero-Bondar
Cc: Peter Stadler; Lou Burnard; TEI Council; Martin Holmes
Subject: Re: [Tei-council] Stylesheets: rub out tei: prefix?
FWIW, I agree with Raffaele and Peter in preferring the explicitness and clarity of a prefix. Sebastian always used to say that whenever a stylesheet didn't behave as expected, it was a namespace problem.
But if Syd is producing a new version, clearly he has the right to make whatever cosmetic changes he is more comfortable with. Might be a good idea to keep the old version around for a while though, just to check nothing has been broken by such changes, if I may state the obvious.
On 04/01/2019 11:44, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:
I always use prefixes. I think it helps with clarity and feels more rigorous/consistent. So my preference would be 5.
Raff
On Fri, Jan 4, 2019, 5:09 AM Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar(a)gmail.com<mailto:ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
By the way, I think there’s a way to do it in pure Schematron, but I am not sure (have to check) if it can be done in the ODD context. If I remember right for pure Schematron at least, the question is whether you have to set the prefix on the Schematron elements or the TEI ones.
Elisa
Sent from my iPhone
> On Jan 4, 2019, at 5:05 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar(a)gmail.com<mailto:ebbondar@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Having worked with setting default namespaces rather a lot in various contexts (XSLT, XQuery, Schematron, I vote enthusiastically for 1). This really just amounts to a change that reduces verbosity, as Syd indicates, but also reflects the default centrality of the TEI in the Stylesheets anyway. And it is a pain to have to remember the default prefix all the time when we gave to edit.
>
> Elisa
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Jan 4, 2019, at 3:54 AM, Peter Stadler <pstadler(a)mail.uni-paderborn.de<mailto:pstadler@mail.uni-paderborn.de>> wrote:
>>
>> I honestly prefer the verbosity of 5) — and I don’t think these XPath expressions can be significantly simplified nor compressed by removing those namespace prefixes.
>> But just to make double sure: This is just a (proposed) cosmetic change due to your personal preference, right? This wouldn’t be bad thing, though, and I think you deserve to do it your way since you are the ODD one :)
>>
>> Cheers
>> Peter
>>
>>> Am 04.01.2019 um 02:18 schrieb Syd Bauman <s.bauman(a)northeastern.edu<mailto:s.bauman@northeastern.edu>>:
>>>
>>> The current odd2odd.xsl (like most of the stylesheets) uses the
>>> explicitly bound namespace prefix "tei:" in XPaths. I am inclined to
>>> use @xpath-default-namespace and get rid of them. I think our XPaths
>>> are often already long enough to wrap around even a wide screen
>>> twice, and things like "ancestor::tei:teiHeader" are just harder to
>>> read.
>>>
>>> Please vote (fast):
>>> 1) I very much want to get rid of the "tei:" prefix in XPaths
>>> 2) I prefer to get rid of them, but don't care much
>>> 3) Makes no difference to me, mate
>>> 4) I prefer to keep them, but don't care much
>>> 5) I very much want to keep the "tei: prefix in XPaths
>>>
>>> In case you're curious, there are approximately
>>> 517 tei:
>>> 38 rng:
>>> 15 xs:
>>> 5 a:
>>> 4 xml:
>>> 2 sch:
>>> prefixes in odd2odd.xsl. (Looking only in attr values.)
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Tei-council mailing list
>>> Tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org<mailto:Tei-council@lists.tei-c.org>
>>> http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Tei-council mailing list
>> Tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org<mailto:Tei-council@lists.tei-c.org>
>> http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
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--
Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD
Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English
University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division
150 Finoli Drive
Greensburg, PA 15601 USA
E-mail: ebb8(a)pitt.edu<mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu>
Development site: http://newtfire.org<http://newtfire.org/>
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--
Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD
Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English
University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division
150 Finoli Drive
Greensburg, PA 15601 USA
E-mail: ebb8(a)pitt.edu<mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu>
Development site: http://newtfire.org<http://newtfire.org/>
Hello Council and Lou,
As I'm working on supporting dataSpec in RomaJS, I've been thinking about
what an interface for defining a datatype's content would look like.
I did a quick survey of teidata.* source files and it looks like <content>
is limited to this pseudocode content model (I hope it makes sense):
(dataRef* | valList | textNode) | alternate { (dataRef* | valList |
textNode) }
I don't see any use of <sequence>, <empty>, <anyElement>, other *Ref
elements besides dataRef, or multiple <valList>s and <textNode>s. This
makes perfect sense to me.
The question is: should I limit the interface to allow users to build only
datatypes that "make sense", or allow more flexibility? The advantage of a
more restrictive approach, which I support, is that the interface can be
more to the point. If we wanted more flexibility, I'd implement the Blockly
interface that is currently in use for <elementSpec>s. But I think it might
discourage people from defining good datatypes as it's not immediately
obvious how to use it.
I wanted to run this by the group to make sure I analyzed this correctly.
Does this make sense?
Also a quick reminder to fill the Doodle for a call in the second week of
February if you're interested in participating
https://doodle.com/poll/8p7exq3vptpb8g9t
Thank you!
Raff
