- Tei-council - lists.tei-c.org

Next telecon
by Hugh Cayless 25 May '16

25 May '16

Hello All, Our next meeting will be at 09:00 EDT / 14:00 BST / 15:00 CEST. I’ve posted the beginnings of an agenda here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1o6Mhb4LrCvzkq0I9IDpyTdTERl4lqtvarid9RHx… We’ll plan to do it as a Google Hangout, with Elli initiating, as she has an account through Brown, and so can bypass the 10-person limit on the call. See you then! Hugh

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Locally defined defined attributes - Issue #386
by Mylonas, Elli 24 May '16

24 May '16

Syd and Elli have regenerated a new version of the list of duplicate attributes.[1] It shows the locally defined elements and the classes they belong to. There are 36 attributes which both belong to a class and are locally defined, many of them on more than one element. For example, @type is locally defined 51 times. We recommend that someone(s) volunteer to look at the various single attributes and classify them as follows: 1. should remain locally defined 2. should become member of an existing attribute class 3. the attribute and other locally defined instances should form a new class 4. should become member of an existing attribute class but its description may need more detail than is provided in the class description. In the last case, we can either try to reword the class description to account for the special case, keep the locally defined attribute, or develop a features that allows an element to belong to an attribute class, but to over-ride the description. Syd and Elli are offering start with some of the simpler examples to test the process, but are happy to hand this off or to work together with others. [1] https://bauman.zapto.org/~syd/temp/4TEICouncil/duplatts.html Elli (for Syd and myself)

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Fw: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender
by Lou Burnard 22 May '16

22 May '16

Sent from my Honor Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender From: Laurent Romary To: Lou Burnard CC: Hi Lou, I will look at this. Could you pass around the information that I have not been a member of Loria since 2006 and that my stable employer is Inria, hence the address…. THanls. Laurent Le 22 mai 2016 à 16:47, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard(a)retired.ox.ac.uk<mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk>> a écrit : Sent from my Honor Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Mail delivery failed: returning message to sender From: Mail Delivery System To: Lou Burnard CC: This message was created automatically by mail delivery software. A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its recipients. This is a permanent error. The following address(es) failed: Laurent.Romary(a)loria.fr<mailto:Laurent.Romary@loria.fr> SMTP error from remote mail server after RCPT TO:<Laurent.Romary(a)loria.fr<mailto:Laurent.Romary@loria.fr>>: host mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr<http://mail2-smtp-roc.national.inria.fr/> [192.134.164.81]: 550 #5.1.0 Address rejected. ------ This is a copy of the message, including all the headers. ------ ------ The body of the message is 10371 characters long; only the first ------ 8192 or so are included here. Return-path: <lou.burnard(a)retired.ox.ac.uk<mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk>> Received: from hub03.nexus.ox.ac.uk<http://hub03.nexus.ox.ac.uk/> ([163.1.154.216] helo=HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk<http://ad.oak.ox.ac.uk/>) by relay15.mail.ox.ac.uk<http://relay15.mail.ox.ac.uk/> with esmtp (Exim 4.80) (envelope-from <lou.burnard(a)retired.ox.ac.uk<mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk>>) id 1b4Uel-0002zw-mO; Sun, 22 May 2016 15:47:03 +0100 Received: from MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk<http://ad.oak.ox.ac.uk/> ([169.254.1.225]) by HUB03.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk<http://ad.oak.ox.ac.uk/> ([163.1.154.216]) with mapi id 14.03.0248.002; Sun, 22 May 2016 15:47:02 +0100 From: Lou Burnard <lou.burnard(a)retired.ox.ac.uk<mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk>> To: "tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org<mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org>" <tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org<mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org>>, "s.bauman(a)neu.edu<mailto:s.bauman@neu.edu>" <s.bauman(a)neu.edu<mailto:s.bauman@neu.edu>> CC: Piotr Banski <bansp(a)o2.pl<mailto:bansp@o2.pl>>, Laurent Romary <Laurent.Romary(a)loria.fr<mailto:Laurent.Romary@loria.fr>> Subject: Re: [tei-council] content of <f> in testbasic Thread-Topic: [tei-council] content of <f> in testbasic Thread-Index: AQHRs66KXBdRDhMUjE+Nr79odukgv5/D9y4AgAETDkQ= Date: Sun, 22 May 2016 14:47:02 +0000 Message-ID: <762A68C71238E2469EBDCDF70ADB249460E84DE3(a)MBX01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk<mailto:762A68C71238E2469EBDCDF70ADB249460E84DE3@mbx01.ad.oak.ox.ac.uk>> References: <900185842.2.1463685216080.JavaMail.jenkins@teijenkins1204> <50368006.3.1463866357697.JavaMail.jenkins@teijenkins1204> <22336.56913.720640.827100(a)paramedic.wwp.neu.edu<mailto:22336.56913.720640.827100@paramedic.wwp.neu.edu>>,<5740EDBA.1090500(a)uvic.ca<mailto:5740EDBA.1090500@uvic.ca>> In-Reply-To: <5740EDBA.1090500(a)uvic.ca<mailto:5740EDBA.1090500@uvic.ca>> Accept-Language: en-GB, en-US Content-Language: en-GB X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_762A68C71238E2469EBDCDF70ADB249460E84DE3MBX01adoakoxacu_" MIME-Version: 1.0 --_000_762A68C71238E2469EBDCDF70ADB249460E84DE3MBX01adoakoxacu_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The key phrase here is "schematron tests we care about" of course. As noted= earlirr on this thread it's not clear that XML validation of any kind is r= eally useful in this case since proper validation entails something more co= mplicated using the fsd. The fact that our processes depend on the presence= of some arbitrary word in a message seems a bit lame however. Sent from my Honor Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] content of in testbasic From: Martin Holmes To: s.bauman(a)neu.edu<mailto:s.bauman@neu.edu>,tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org<mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org> CC: Piotr Banski ,Laurent Romary I have always assumed that tests intended to fail should be in detest, not in the other tests. But to be honest I think the whole set of tests was assembled in a piecemeal manner without much of a guiding plan, so I wouldn't be surprised to discover that there are intentional invalidities elsewhere. But in this particular case, I see the problem. If you look at the parsed log of the last successful build (<http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca/job/TEIP5-Test-dev/2848/parsed_console/>), you'll see this: validateschematron: [echo] Validate using Schematron [xslt] Processing /var/lib/jenkins/jobs/TEIP5-Test-dev/workspace/P5/Test/testbasic.xml to /dev/null [xslt] Loading stylesheet /var/lib/jenkins/jobs/TEIP5-Test-dev/workspace/P5/Test/testbasic.xsl [xslt] A feature value cannot contain both text and element content (tei:* and text()[normalize-space(.) ne '']) [xslt] A feature value can contain only one child element (count(tei:*) gt 1) In other words, these tests DO fail the Schematron check; but because the Schematron error message does not contain the trigger word ERROR, the build is not marked as having failed. In other words, the wrong test is being done in the wrong place the the results are being ignored. Two takeaways from this: 1. All Schematron rules we care about should have "ERROR" in their error messages, otherwise Jenkins is not going to notice them. If that's deemed too scary for end users, we need to find another trigger string that's not so bad, and then configure the Jenkins log parser to pay attention to it. 2. We need to go through all the tests and make sure they're actually working properly. There could be many more examples of this. Cheers, Martin On 2016-05-21 03:16 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: > The Jenkins build of P5 is failing because of the following test in > .../P5/Test/testbasic.xml: > > <fLib xmlns=3D"http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0"> > <f name=3D"xxx">A feature may have untyped content</f> > <f name=3D"yyy"> > <string>or typed</string> > </f> > <f name=3D"notgood"> > <string>multiple types</string> > <symbol value=3D"doubleplusungood"/> > </f> > <f name=3D"alsonotgood">mixed content > <symbol value=3D"doubleplusungood"/> > </f> > </fLib> > > I think these are tests that are *supposed* to fail, and thus should > be in the detest/ suite, not here in testbasic.xml. > > 1) Can someone (Martin?) affirm for me that testbasic.xml is > supposed to be valid? > > 2) Can someone (Laurent?, Lou?, Piotr?) affirm for me that an <f> is > supposed to have at most 1 child element (from class > model.featureVal, i.e. one of <fs>, <vColl>, <vMerge>, <vNot>, > <binary>, <default>, <numeric>, <string>, <symbol>, <vAlt>, or > <vLabel>)? > > If I've got this right, I'll just move these tests out of testbasic, > and we'll be up and running again. > -- tei-council mailing list tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org<mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org> http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived --_000_762A68C71238E2469EBDCDF70ADB249460E84DE3MBX01adoakoxacu_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable <html> <head> <meta http-equiv=3D"Content-Type" content=3D"text/html; charset=3Dus-ascii"= > <meta name=3D"Generator" content=3D"Microsoft Exchange Server"> <style></style> </head> <body> <div>The key phrase here is "schematron tests we care about" of c= ourse. As noted earlirr on this thread it's not clear that XML validation o= f any kind is really useful in this case since proper validation entails so= mething more complicated using the fsd. The fact that our processes depend on the presence of some arbitrary word in a= message seems a bit lame however. Sent from my Honor Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] content of in testbasic From: Martin Holmes To: s.bauman(a)neu.edu<mailto:s.bauman@neu.edu>,tei-council(a)lists.tei-c.org<mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org> CC: Piotr Banski ,Laurent Romary </div> <div class=3D"PlainText">I have always assumed that tests intended to fail = should be in detest, not in the other tests. But to be honest I think the whole set of tests <br= > was assembled in a piecemeal manner without much of a guiding plan, so I <b= r> wouldn't be surprised to discover that there are intentional invalidities elsewhere. But in this particular case, I see the problem. If you look at the parsed log of the last successful build (<<a href=3D"http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca/job/TEIP5-Test-dev/2848/pars= ed_console/">http://teijenkins.hcmc.uvic.ca/job/TEIP5-Test-dev/2848/parsed_= console/</a>>), you'll see this: validateschematron:       [echo] Validate using Schematron       [xslt] Processing /var/lib/jenkins/jobs/TEIP5-Test-dev/workspace/P5/Test/testbasic.xml to <br= > /dev/null       [xslt] Loading stylesheet /var/lib/jenkins/jobs/TEIP5-Test-dev/workspace/P5/Test/testbasic.xsl       [xslt] A feature value cannot contain both t= ext and element content (tei:* and text()[normalize-space(.) ne ''])       [xslt] A feature value can contain only one = child element (count(tei:*) gt 1) In other words, these tests DO fail the Schematron check; but because the Schematron error message does not contain the trigger word ERROR, the build is not marked as having failed. In other words, the wrong test <b= r> is being done in the wrong place the the results are being ignored. Two takeaways from this: 1. All Schematron rules we care about should have "ERROR" in thei= r error messages, otherwise Jenkins is not going to notice them. If that's deemed too scary for end users, we need to find another trigger string that's not so bad, and then configure the Jenkins log parser to pay attention to it. 2. We need to go through all the tests and make sure they're actually working properly. There could be many more examples of this. Cheers, Martin On 2016-05-21 03:16 PM, Syd Bauman wrote: > The Jenkins build of P5 is failing because of the following test in<br= > > .../P5/Test/testbasic.xml: > >          <fLib xmlns= =3D"<a href=3D"http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.0">http://www.tei-c.org/ns/1.= 0</a>"> >            <= f name=3D"xxx">A feature may have untyped content</f><br= > >            <= f name=3D"yyy"> >           &nbsp= ;  <string>or typed</string> >            <= /f> >            <= f name=3D"no Laurent Romary Inria, team Alpage laurent.romary(a)inria.fr<mailto:laurent.romary@inria.fr>

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next telcon?
by Syd Bauman 21 May '16

21 May '16

When is our next teleconference? (And for that matter, when are they in general?)

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PureODD question
by Raffaele Viglianti 16 May '16

16 May '16

Hello, I think this is mostly a question for Lou, and any other who was involved in getting PureODD together. I've started converting the MEI ODD to PureODD, so I expect to find a few issues, most of which will likely be caused by my ineptitude, so apologies in advance. Here's the first obstacle I found: In MEI the datatypes of some attributes are defined in <datatype> itself. There a few cases for this: 1. the datatype is very specific to the element and it doesn't need to be re-used. Example: <attDef ident="tab.strings" usage="opt"> <desc>Provides a *written* pitch and octave for each open string or course of strings.</desc> <datatype> <rng:list> <rng:oneOrMore> <rng:data type="token"> <rng:param name="pattern" >[a-g][0-9](s|f|ss|x|ff|xs|sx|ts|tf|n|nf|ns|su|sd|fu|fd|nu|nd|1qf|3qf|1qs|3qs)?([a-g][0-9](s|f|ss|x|ff|xs|sx|ts|tf|n|nf|ns|su|sd|fu|fd|nu|nd|1qf|3qf|1qs|3qs)?)*</rng:param> </rng:data> </rng:oneOrMore> </rng:list> </datatype> </attDef> Solution: bite the bullet and move it to a dedicated <dataSpec> 2. The datatype combines a number of pre-defined datatypes Example: <datatype> <rng:list> <rng:oneOrMore> <rng:data type="decimal"/> <rng:data type="decimal"/> </rng:oneOrMore> </rng:list> </datatype> Solution: again create a dedicated <dataSpec>, but it's a bit annoying since this it's just a matter of combining already defined datatypes in a specific way. 3. The datatype involved a choice between a number of pre-defined datatypes Example: <datatype> <rng:choice> <rng:data type="decimal"> <rng:param name="minInclusive">1</rng:param> </rng:data> <rng:data type="time"/> </rng:choice> </datatype> Solution: like 2., but there is also another question: we're relying on the rng datatype for time. Will we have to define our own? Can we use rng's or xsd's definition without breaking the Durand Conondrum? General question: What's the reason to not allow <content> in <datatype>? It also seems a bit strange to allow either dataRef or textNode - it seems to me that it's mixing a reference and a definition, but only if it's a text node. It would seem more logical to just replace <datatype> with <dataRef> and use it to refer to a text datatype. Or, better, just allow datatype to define the datatype there and then like it used to :) Thanks, Raff

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TEI Issue 1454
by James Cummings 10 May '16

10 May '16

Hi Council, In https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1454 Jakub Simek has asked that <msPart> (and when prompted <msFrag) should claim membership in att.typed. Our normal test for att.typed membership (to reduce unwarranted proliferation and lest we just make it global) is twofold: 1) Is the element repeatable? 2) Can we think of some reasonable examples of how someone might want to classify this element (both generally (@type) and specifically (@subtype) The first is true, and the second seemed obvious to me and Jakub has come back to me on the issue with examples of how they might classify them (and I'm sure many other manuscript cataloguers could come up with additional classifications depending on their approaches and school of cataloguing. I think this is uncontroversial and I've assigned it to me and marked it Status: Go. If there are no comments on the issue objecting before 1 June, I'll implement. -James -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings(a)it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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Photos from Providence Face 2 Face
by James Cummings 09 May '16

09 May '16

By the way, if anyone is interested, here are my photos of the Providence face 2 face. I really should take more photos of us working! As usual it looks like all we did was eat and drink and have some nice walks. https://goo.gl/photos/vjiznp3Bs4Ab9NVx6 -James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT Services, University of Oxford, Registration Open: Digital Humanities at Oxford Summer School, 4-8 July 2016 http://digital.humanities.ox.ac.uk/dhoxss/2016

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action item: data modelling conference
by Syd Bauman 04 May '16

04 May '16

At F2F I was asked to provide a pointer to the papers from the data modelling conference that was held at Brown 2012-03. I found the index page: http://www.wwp.northeastern.edu/outreach/conference/kodm2012/ However, most of the presentations do not have a link to a paper, but rather a link to a video of the presentation.

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remind me, please
by Syd Bauman 04 May '16

04 May '16

When are our regular scheduled conference calls?

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TEI/HTML5 Project
by Hugh Cayless 03 May '16

03 May '16

Hi all, You got a preview last week of the TEI in HTML5 Custom Elements thing that Raff and I have been working on separately and have now decided to collaborate on (now tentatively named CETEIcean). Would anyone object to our putting it under the TEIC GitHub organization? In the time-honoured tradition, silence will be taken as assent :-). All the best, Hugh

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