I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session. I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of customization usage might look like and put some sample questions in there. Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think, since we're less than 4 weeks out. Thanks, Hugh
Happy to volunteer for number 2 ! Sent from my Honor Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC: I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session. I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of customization usage might look like and put some sample questions in there. Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think, since we're less than 4 weeks out. Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
Your name's on it! Do you think doing that sort of survey would be useful? I'd kind of like to know what the TEI user on the street thinks about the question of whether to pick a standard schema vs. customize your own. On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
Happy to volunteer for number 2 !
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:
I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session.
I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of customization usage might look like and put some sample questions in there.
Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think, since we're less than 4 weeks out.
Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
I certainly have no objection, though I think I can predict the outcome. In other mail from the Board I see that the TEI's problems are largely because "social facts" often contradict "actual facts", and there clearly is an established "social fact" that customization is hard and unnecessary, even though we keep saying it's neither. So we need either to find a better way of saying it, or give up. Not the least irritating aspect of this is that those who refuse to do customisation then proceed to reproach the TEI system with being too large and complex, or not sufficiently customized to their needs. On 01/09/16 16:17, Hugh Cayless wrote:
Your name's on it! Do you think doing that sort of survey would be useful? I'd kind of like to know what the TEI user on the street thinks about the question of whether to pick a standard schema vs. customize your own.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
Happy to volunteer for number 2 !
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:
I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session.
I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of customization usage might look like and put some sample questions in there.
Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think, since we're less than 4 weeks out.
Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
Reminder: we need at least 2 more volunteers to present during the Council session. Don't all shout at once! https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7B... On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
I certainly have no objection, though I think I can predict the outcome. In other mail from the Board I see that the TEI's problems are largely because "social facts" often contradict "actual facts", and there clearly is an established "social fact" that customization is hard and unnecessary, even though we keep saying it's neither. So we need either to find a better way of saying it, or give up. Not the least irritating aspect of this is that those who refuse to do customisation then proceed to reproach the TEI system with being too large and complex, or not sufficiently customized to their needs.
On 01/09/16 16:17, Hugh Cayless wrote:
Your name's on it! Do you think doing that sort of survey would be useful? I'd kind of like to know what the TEI user on the street thinks about the question of whether to pick a standard schema vs. customize your own.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Lou Burnard < lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
Happy to volunteer for number 2 !
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:
I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session.
I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of customization usage might look like and put some sample questions in there.
Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think, since we're less than 4 weeks out.
Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
If nobody is passionate about presentation #1, I'd be happy to take it on. Maybe someone with more experience could back me up on the release part (particularly re: Oxygen components) Raff On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
Reminder: we need at least 2 more volunteers to present during the Council session. Don't all shout at once!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk
wrote:
I certainly have no objection, though I think I can predict the outcome. In other mail from the Board I see that the TEI's problems are largely because "social facts" often contradict "actual facts", and there clearly is an established "social fact" that customization is hard and unnecessary, even though we keep saying it's neither. So we need either to find a better way of saying it, or give up. Not the least irritating aspect of this is that those who refuse to do customisation then proceed to reproach the TEI system with being too large and complex, or not sufficiently customized to their needs.
On 01/09/16 16:17, Hugh Cayless wrote:
Your name's on it! Do you think doing that sort of survey would be useful? I'd kind of like to know what the TEI user on the street thinks about the question of whether to pick a standard schema vs. customize your own.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Lou Burnard < lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
Happy to volunteer for number 2 !
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:
I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session.
I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of
customization
usage might look like and put some sample questions in there.
Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think, since we're less than 4 weeks out.
Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
I've not volunteered since I'm already speaking/doing too much at the conference this year. However, I'd happily be one of the stooges in the audience ready and willing to ask leading questions or similar if necessary. I would note that none of these really answer what Martin Mueller has proposed as "Whither TEI: The Next Thirty Years". -James On 06/09/16 15:14, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:
If nobody is passionate about presentation #1, I'd be happy to take it on. Maybe someone with more experience could back me up on the release part (particularly re: Oxygen components) Raff
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
Reminder: we need at least 2 more volunteers to present during the Council session. Don't all shout at once!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk wrote:
I certainly have no objection, though I think I can predict the outcome. In other mail from the Board I see that the TEI's problems are largely because "social facts" often contradict "actual facts", and there clearly is an established "social fact" that customization is hard and unnecessary, even though we keep saying it's neither. So we need either to find a better way of saying it, or give up. Not the least irritating aspect of this is that those who refuse to do customisation then proceed to reproach the TEI system with being too large and complex, or not sufficiently customized to their needs.
On 01/09/16 16:17, Hugh Cayless wrote:
Your name's on it! Do you think doing that sort of survey would be useful? I'd kind of like to know what the TEI user on the street thinks about the question of whether to pick a standard schema vs. customize your own.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Lou Burnard < lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
Happy to volunteer for number 2 !
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:
I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session.
I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of customization usage might look like and put some sample questions in there.
Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think, since we're less than 4 weeks out.
Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:52 AM, James Cummings <James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
I would note that none of these really answer what Martin Mueller has proposed as "Whither TEI: The Next Thirty Years".
I guess the session was recast as an outreach exercise, and I think there's value in showing a bit of what we do. #3 "TEI Next" does address MM's topic, doesn't it? Maybe we need to give it more breadth. Not sure how much we can really say, though, and it may be more useful to turn it into a discussion rather than presenting a position paper by a transient TEI council.
I'd like to think talking about where we are is the best setup for talking about the future. Sent from my phone.
On Sep 6, 2016, at 12:02, Raffaele Viglianti <raffaeleviglianti@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:52 AM, James Cummings <James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
I would note that none of these really answer what Martin Mueller has proposed as "Whither TEI: The Next Thirty Years".
I guess the session was recast as an outreach exercise, and I think there's value in showing a bit of what we do. #3 "TEI Next" does address MM's topic, doesn't it? Maybe we need to give it more breadth. Not sure how much we can really say, though, and it may be more useful to turn it into a discussion rather than presenting a position paper by a transient TEI council. -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
Hi-- I haven't been jumping to the fore mostly because I haven't been on Council terribly long, but: * I like Presentation #1 and I'm happy to help out with it in any way that works. I'm a little worried, by the way, about Martin Mueller's peeps in his latest messages about his sense that Council's role ought to change--he seems to think that maintaining the Guidelines is problematic or too limited. I really want to help counter that perspective: the Guidelines are important, difficult, require a LOT of conversation, debate, and reflection, and careful writin. Can I talk about that as a Newbie on Council who is very impressed with the effort we've been putting in? I'd hate to see us stuck with other roles that outsiders from Council might think better suited to us, if people don't understand the serious work we're already doing(!) * I'm happy to be a stooge in the audience, too--I'm good at interjecting pointed questions--but Presentation #1 has a strong pull for me. Thanks, Elisa On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:52 AM, James Cummings <James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
I've not volunteered since I'm already speaking/doing too much at the conference this year. However, I'd happily be one of the stooges in the audience ready and willing to ask leading questions or similar if necessary.
I would note that none of these really answer what Martin Mueller has proposed as "Whither TEI: The Next Thirty Years".
-James
On 06/09/16 15:14, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:
If nobody is passionate about presentation #1, I'd be happy to take it on. Maybe someone with more experience could back me up on the release part (particularly re: Oxygen components) Raff
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
Reminder: we need at least 2 more volunteers to present during the Council
session. Don't all shout at once!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Lou Burnard < lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk wrote:
I certainly have no objection, though I think I can predict the outcome.
In other mail from the Board I see that the TEI's problems are largely because "social facts" often contradict "actual facts", and there clearly is an established "social fact" that customization is hard and unnecessary, even though we keep saying it's neither. So we need either to find a better way of saying it, or give up. Not the least irritating aspect of this is that those who refuse to do customisation then proceed to reproach the TEI system with being too large and complex, or not sufficiently customized to their
needs.
On 01/09/16 16:17, Hugh Cayless wrote:
Your name's on it! Do you think doing that sort of survey would be
useful?
I'd kind of like to know what the TEI user on the street thinks about
the
question of whether to pick a standard schema vs. customize your own.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Lou Burnard < lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
Happy to volunteer for number 2 !
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:
I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session.
I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of
customization
usage might look like and put some sample questions in there.
Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think,
since
we're less than 4 weeks out.
Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
--
tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org
I agree with those who say that it is good to say where we are as prologue to an imagined 30 year projection. I suppose one of the things we could end with is such an imagined future but almost everyone who has ever imagined the future of technology more than 10 years away has been very inaccurate. I would say that the TEI's job as a standard and consortium is to help people by giving them a framework or system for expressing their understandings of text(s) and what they want to say about those texts using rigorous and intellectually honest digital methodologies. I would say that in 30 years we would hope to be doing the same things either refining what we already have or dealing with new sources, new methodologies, and new technologies. Our job certainly isn't to leap after the next new technology before it has become mainstream (however much we may enjoy also doing that in our day jobs or evening pastimes). That is the kind of thing I'd say. Oh, and I very much like Elisa's suggestion and think that her talking about being a newbie on Council and how much she has learned (and how much more there is to it than she might have thought?) would be good and beneficial. I'm very resistant to Martin Mueller's idea that the Council should be doing a lot more than its current mandate. At some point it may be that the TEI has exhausted the need for development and maintenance of the guidelines and we can move on to other roles more fully, but I feel we are struggling to even complete this and as an elected group for short terms we shouldn't make being on Council even harder for those who want to contribute but have less time. (But I remind people that the Council list is publicly archived while the board-council list is not, so those reading this in archived form will not necessarily have seen Martin M's draft yet.) -James On 06/09/16 20:28, Elisa Beshero-Bondar wrote:
Hi-- I haven't been jumping to the fore mostly because I haven't been on Council terribly long, but: * I like Presentation #1 and I'm happy to help out with it in any way that works. I'm a little worried, by the way, about Martin Mueller's peeps in his latest messages about his sense that Council's role ought to change--he seems to think that maintaining the Guidelines is problematic or too limited. I really want to help counter that perspective: the Guidelines are important, difficult, require a LOT of conversation, debate, and reflection, and careful writin. Can I talk about that as a Newbie on Council who is very impressed with the effort we've been putting in? I'd hate to see us stuck with other roles that outsiders from Council might think better suited to us, if people don't understand the serious work we're already doing(!)
* I'm happy to be a stooge in the audience, too--I'm good at interjecting pointed questions--but Presentation #1 has a strong pull for me.
Thanks, Elisa
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:52 AM, James Cummings <James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk <mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
I've not volunteered since I'm already speaking/doing too much at the conference this year. However, I'd happily be one of the stooges in the audience ready and willing to ask leading questions or similar if necessary.
I would note that none of these really answer what Martin Mueller has proposed as "Whither TEI: The Next Thirty Years".
-James
On 06/09/16 15:14, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:
If nobody is passionate about presentation #1, I'd be happy to take it on. Maybe someone with more experience could back me up on the release part (particularly re: Oxygen components) Raff
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com <mailto:philomousos@gmail.com>> wrote:
Reminder: we need at least 2 more volunteers to present during the Council session. Don't all shout at once!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_> I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk <mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
I certainly have no objection, though I think I can predict the outcome. In other mail from the Board I see that the TEI's problems are largely because "social facts" often contradict "actual facts", and there clearly is an established "social fact" that customization is hard and unnecessary, even though we keep saying it's neither. So we need either to find a better way of saying it, or give up. Not the least irritating aspect of this is that those who refuse to do customisation then proceed to reproach the TEI system with being too large and complex, or not sufficiently customized to their
needs.
On 01/09/16 16:17, Hugh Cayless wrote:
Your name's on it! Do you think doing that sort of survey would be
useful?
I'd kind of like to know what the TEI user on the street thinks about
the
question of whether to pick a standard schema vs. customize your own.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Lou Burnard < lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk <mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Happy to volunteer for number 2 !
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:
I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session.
I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of
customization
usage might look like and put some sample questions in there.
Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think,
since
we're less than 4 weeks out.
Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org <mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org> http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council <http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council>
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-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org <mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org> http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council <http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council>
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-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk <mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org <mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org> http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council <http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council>
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
I entirely agree with James that trying to predict the future is a mug's game and we shouldn't try to do it. I also like Elisa's suggestion very much. I don't know where to start with Martin Mueller's paper: it contains so much that seems to me entirely wrong-headed mixed up with some self evident verities. On 06/09/16 21:35, James Cummings wrote:
I agree with those who say that it is good to say where we are as prologue to an imagined 30 year projection. I suppose one of the things we could end with is such an imagined future but almost everyone who has ever imagined the future of technology more than 10 years away has been very inaccurate. I would say that the TEI's job as a standard and consortium is to help people by giving them a framework or system for expressing their understandings of text(s) and what they want to say about those texts using rigorous and intellectually honest digital methodologies. I would say that in 30 years we would hope to be doing the same things either refining what we already have or dealing with new sources, new methodologies, and new technologies. Our job certainly isn't to leap after the next new technology before it has become mainstream (however much we may enjoy also doing that in our day jobs or evening pastimes). That is the kind of thing I'd say.
Oh, and I very much like Elisa's suggestion and think that her talking about being a newbie on Council and how much she has learned (and how much more there is to it than she might have thought?) would be good and beneficial.
I'm very resistant to Martin Mueller's idea that the Council should be doing a lot more than its current mandate. At some point it may be that the TEI has exhausted the need for development and maintenance of the guidelines and we can move on to other roles more fully, but I feel we are struggling to even complete this and as an elected group for short terms we shouldn't make being on Council even harder for those who want to contribute but have less time.
(But I remind people that the Council list is publicly archived while the board-council list is not, so those reading this in archived form will not necessarily have seen Martin M's draft yet.)
-James
On 06/09/16 20:28, Elisa Beshero-Bondar wrote:
Hi-- I haven't been jumping to the fore mostly because I haven't been on Council terribly long, but: * I like Presentation #1 and I'm happy to help out with it in any way that works. I'm a little worried, by the way, about Martin Mueller's peeps in his latest messages about his sense that Council's role ought to change--he seems to think that maintaining the Guidelines is problematic or too limited. I really want to help counter that perspective: the Guidelines are important, difficult, require a LOT of conversation, debate, and reflection, and careful writin. Can I talk about that as a Newbie on Council who is very impressed with the effort we've been putting in? I'd hate to see us stuck with other roles that outsiders from Council might think better suited to us, if people don't understand the serious work we're already doing(!)
* I'm happy to be a stooge in the audience, too--I'm good at interjecting pointed questions--but Presentation #1 has a strong pull for me.
Thanks, Elisa
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 11:52 AM, James Cummings <James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk <mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
I've not volunteered since I'm already speaking/doing too much at the conference this year. However, I'd happily be one of the stooges in the audience ready and willing to ask leading questions or similar if necessary.
I would note that none of these really answer what Martin Mueller has proposed as "Whither TEI: The Next Thirty Years".
-James
On 06/09/16 15:14, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:
If nobody is passionate about presentation #1, I'd be happy to take it on. Maybe someone with more experience could back me up on the release part (particularly re: Oxygen components) Raff
On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 10:10 AM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com <mailto:philomousos@gmail.com>> wrote:
Reminder: we need at least 2 more volunteers to present during the Council session. Don't all shout at once!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_> I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:27 AM, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk <mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
I certainly have no objection, though I think I can predict the outcome. In other mail from the Board I see that the TEI's problems are largely because "social facts" often contradict "actual facts", and there clearly is an established "social fact" that customization is hard and unnecessary, even though we keep saying it's neither. So we need either to find a better way of saying it, or give up. Not the least irritating aspect of this is that those who refuse to do customisation then proceed to reproach the TEI system with being too large and complex, or not sufficiently customized to their
needs.
On 01/09/16 16:17, Hugh Cayless wrote:
Your name's on it! Do you think doing that sort of survey would be
useful?
I'd kind of like to know what the TEI user on the street thinks about
the
question of whether to pick a standard schema vs. customize your own.
On Thu, Sep 1, 2016 at 11:01 AM, Lou Burnard < lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk <mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk>> wrote:
Happy to volunteer for number 2 !
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:
I've tried to distill the ideas in the Google Doc into 3 presentations. Can you all take a look and see if you agree with my choices? We'll need volunteers for each talk, which will entail writing and giving a short presentation (definitely under 10 minutes, 5 would be ideal). We also need a moderator. The rest of us should be available to the presenters as support both before and during the session.
I think all of the talks would benefit from canvassing the community beforehand. I did a little thinking about what a survey of
customization
usage might look like and put some sample questions in there.
Any feedback from the community should be solicited ASAP, I think,
since
we're less than 4 weeks out.
Thanks, Hugh -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org <mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org> http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council <http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council>
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-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk <mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> Academic IT Services, University of Oxford
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-- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it! As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7B... Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1? You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved... Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works. If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something...
I’m okay with sharing 1) with Raff (if it’s okay with Raff), and it’ll help to have a sense of timing: How much time have we got? We can maybe each prepare a statement describing our experience of Council work—and I’m sure Raff’s is different from mine so far, so I think it’ll make for a good overview. Agreed that this is a good moment, perhaps after each of us has made a statement, to ask the audience what questions they have. Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it!
As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7B...
Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1?
You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved...
Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works.
If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something... -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
I was planning on giving an overview of the council process around a ticket. The angle would be: "what happens when you think something is wrong with or missing from the TEI?" Basically describing the life of a bug report / feature request. I think that the fact that this kind of request can be submitted will be news to many. Both Elisa and I can pepper this with a more human account of our experience with this process and the council in general and conclude with some general remarks and questions form the audience. How does this sound? We could try and keep it around 10-15 minutes questions included? I would not go into details for the release process instead, I think that's a bit less interesting to the general public and would take too much time from the hour. On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m okay with sharing 1) with Raff (if it’s okay with Raff), and it’ll help to have a sense of timing: How much time have we got? We can maybe each prepare a statement describing our experience of Council work—and I’m sure Raff’s is different from mine so far, so I think it’ll make for a good overview. Agreed that this is a good moment, perhaps after each of us has made a statement, to ask the audience what questions they have.
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it!
As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1?
You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved...
Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works.
If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something... -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
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Sounds like a great plan to me—though I imagine the release process will come up in conversation, and I will think about a pithy way of describing that (if possible)! :-) Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Raffaele Viglianti <raffaeleviglianti@gmail.com> wrote:
I was planning on giving an overview of the council process around a ticket. The angle would be: "what happens when you think something is wrong with or missing from the TEI?" Basically describing the life of a bug report / feature request. I think that the fact that this kind of request can be submitted will be news to many. Both Elisa and I can pepper this with a more human account of our experience with this process and the council in general and conclude with some general remarks and questions form the audience. How does this sound? We could try and keep it around 10-15 minutes questions included?
I would not go into details for the release process instead, I think that's a bit less interesting to the general public and would take too much time from the hour.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar@gmail.com <mailto:ebbondar@gmail.com>> wrote:
I’m okay with sharing 1) with Raff (if it’s okay with Raff), and it’ll help to have a sense of timing: How much time have we got? We can maybe each prepare a statement describing our experience of Council work—and I’m sure Raff’s is different from mine so far, so I think it’ll make for a good overview. Agreed that this is a good moment, perhaps after each of us has made a statement, to ask the audience what questions they have.
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu>> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/> <http://newtfire.org/ <http://newtfire.org/>>
On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it!
As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1?
You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved...
Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works.
If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something... -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
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Hours of boredom punctuated by moments of terror? On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like a great plan to me—though I imagine the release process will come up in conversation, and I will think about a pithy way of describing that (if possible)! :-)
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Raffaele Viglianti < raffaeleviglianti@gmail.com> wrote:
I was planning on giving an overview of the council process around a ticket. The angle would be: "what happens when you think something is wrong with or missing from the TEI?" Basically describing the life of a bug report / feature request. I think that the fact that this kind of request can be submitted will be news to many. Both Elisa and I can pepper this with a more human account of our experience with this process and the council in general and conclude with some general remarks and questions form the audience. How does this sound? We could try and keep it around 10-15 minutes questions included?
I would not go into details for the release process instead, I think that's a bit less interesting to the general public and would take too much time from the hour.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar < ebbondar@gmail.com <mailto:ebbondar@gmail.com>> wrote:
I’m okay with sharing 1) with Raff (if it’s okay with Raff), and it’ll help to have a sense of timing: How much time have we got? We can maybe each prepare a statement describing our experience of Council work—and I’m sure Raff’s is different from mine so far, so I think it’ll make for a good overview. Agreed that this is a good moment, perhaps after each of us has made a statement, to ask the audience what questions they have.
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu>> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/> < http://newtfire.org/ <http://newtfire.org/>>
On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it!
As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1?
You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved...
Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works.
If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something... -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
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In thinking about this a little more, I wanted to share something of the intense debate and reflection we have been applying to difficult questions, and I thought of selecting one, maybe two recent cases that have really challenged us, to point out what factors tend to guide our thinking process and cause us perhaps to reopen a ticket. I think featuring a ticket in which TEI community members were/are involved might be a good case in point: "How do we deliberate?" would be my angle, I think. What tickets might be good to feature in such a discussion? Elisa Typeset by hand on my iPad
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like a great plan to me—though I imagine the release process will come up in conversation, and I will think about a pithy way of describing that (if possible)! :-)
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Raffaele Viglianti <raffaeleviglianti@gmail.com> wrote:
I was planning on giving an overview of the council process around a ticket. The angle would be: "what happens when you think something is wrong with or missing from the TEI?" Basically describing the life of a bug report / feature request. I think that the fact that this kind of request can be submitted will be news to many. Both Elisa and I can pepper this with a more human account of our experience with this process and the council in general and conclude with some general remarks and questions form the audience. How does this sound? We could try and keep it around 10-15 minutes questions included?
I would not go into details for the release process instead, I think that's a bit less interesting to the general public and would take too much time from the hour.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m okay with sharing 1) with Raff (if it’s okay with Raff), and it’ll help to have a sense of timing: How much time have we got? We can maybe each prepare a statement describing our experience of Council work—and I’m sure Raff’s is different from mine so far, so I think it’ll make for a good overview. Agreed that this is a good moment, perhaps after each of us has made a statement, to ask the audience what questions they have.
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it!
As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1?
You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved...
Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works.
If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something... -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
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Prompted by Elisa's suggestion, I did some digging and found two issues that I think may be representative of a slightly more elaborate process within the council: 1. A closed one: list/@type="unordered" is not recommended, but used often <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1099> (2012 - 2014) 2. And one still open: free-standing attributes -> class <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/386> (2012 — ) Do you think these are useful examples? Can you think of better issues along these lines that are not overly complicated in their history? I've made a summary of these two issues on the slides that I'm putting together for the presentation (last two slides at the moment). Comments are welcome, but beware that the document is likely to change quickly: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ucAIF3T7XPxcMZ-SJ3iWDEpLBZXFSWgnQmu7... Thanks! Raff On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:09 PM, Elisa <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
In thinking about this a little more, I wanted to share something of the intense debate and reflection we have been applying to difficult questions, and I thought of selecting one, maybe two recent cases that have really challenged us, to point out what factors tend to guide our thinking process and cause us perhaps to reopen a ticket. I think featuring a ticket in which TEI community members were/are involved might be a good case in point: "How do we deliberate?" would be my angle, I think.
What tickets might be good to feature in such a discussion?
Elisa
Typeset by hand on my iPad
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like a great plan to me—though I imagine the release process will come up in conversation, and I will think about a pithy way of describing that (if possible)! :-)
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Raffaele Viglianti < raffaeleviglianti@gmail.com> wrote:
I was planning on giving an overview of the council process around a ticket. The angle would be: "what happens when you think something is wrong with or missing from the TEI?" Basically describing the life of a bug report / feature request. I think that the fact that this kind of request can be submitted will be news to many. Both Elisa and I can pepper this with a more human account of our experience with this process and the council in general and conclude with some general remarks and questions form the audience. How does this sound? We could try and keep it around 10-15 minutes questions included?
I would not go into details for the release process instead, I think that's a bit less interesting to the general public and would take too much time from the hour.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar < ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m okay with sharing 1) with Raff (if it’s okay with Raff), and it’ll help to have a sense of timing: How much time have we got? We can maybe each prepare a statement describing our experience of Council work—and I’m sure Raff’s is different from mine so far, so I think it’ll make for a good overview. Agreed that this is a good moment, perhaps after each of us has made a statement, to ask the audience what questions they have.
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it!
As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1?
You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved...
Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works.
If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something... -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
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It would be good to have an example of council working on finalising community proposals. Eg tickets for genetic edition, or for prrsonography, or changes to app content model. Or even maybe tei simple! Sent from my Honor Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Raffaele Viglianti To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC: Prompted by Elisa's suggestion, I did some digging and found two issues that I think may be representative of a slightly more elaborate process within the council: 1. A closed one: list/@type="unordered" is not recommended, but used often <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1099> (2012 - 2014) 2. And one still open: free-standing attributes -> class <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/386> (2012 — ) Do you think these are useful examples? Can you think of better issues along these lines that are not overly complicated in their history? I've made a summary of these two issues on the slides that I'm putting together for the presentation (last two slides at the moment). Comments are welcome, but beware that the document is likely to change quickly: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ucAIF3T7XPxcMZ-SJ3iWDEpLBZXFSWgnQmu7... Thanks! Raff On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:09 PM, Elisa <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
In thinking about this a little more, I wanted to share something of the intense debate and reflection we have been applying to difficult questions, and I thought of selecting one, maybe two recent cases that have really challenged us, to point out what factors tend to guide our thinking process and cause us perhaps to reopen a ticket. I think featuring a ticket in which TEI community members were/are involved might be a good case in point: "How do we deliberate?" would be my angle, I think.
What tickets might be good to feature in such a discussion?
Elisa
Typeset by hand on my iPad
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like a great plan to me—though I imagine the release process will come up in conversation, and I will think about a pithy way of describing that (if possible)! :-)
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Raffaele Viglianti < raffaeleviglianti@gmail.com> wrote:
I was planning on giving an overview of the council process around a ticket. The angle would be: "what happens when you think something is wrong with or missing from the TEI?" Basically describing the life of a bug report / feature request. I think that the fact that this kind of request can be submitted will be news to many. Both Elisa and I can pepper this with a more human account of our experience with this process and the council in general and conclude with some general remarks and questions form the audience. How does this sound? We could try and keep it around 10-15 minutes questions included?
I would not go into details for the release process instead, I think that's a bit less interesting to the general public and would take too much time from the hour.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar < ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m okay with sharing 1) with Raff (if it’s okay with Raff), and it’ll help to have a sense of timing: How much time have we got? We can maybe each prepare a statement describing our experience of Council work—and I’m sure Raff’s is different from mine so far, so I think it’ll make for a good overview. Agreed that this is a good moment, perhaps after each of us has made a statement, to ask the audience what questions they have.
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it!
As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1?
You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved...
Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works.
If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something... -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
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Thanks, Lou—I’ll go searching for some of those issues tomorrow while I’m stuck in the airport! :-) Packing for Vienna… Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 21, 2016, at 4:25 AM, Lou Burnard <lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:
It would be good to have an example of council working on finalising community proposals. Eg tickets for genetic edition, or for prrsonography, or changes to app content model. Or even maybe tei simple!
Sent from my Honor Mobile
-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] Whither TEI Sessions From: Raffaele Viglianti To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:
Prompted by Elisa's suggestion, I did some digging and found two issues that I think may be representative of a slightly more elaborate process within the council:
1. A closed one: list/@type="unordered" is not recommended, but used often <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1099> (2012 - 2014) 2. And one still open: free-standing attributes -> class <https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/386> (2012 — )
Do you think these are useful examples? Can you think of better issues along these lines that are not overly complicated in their history? I've made a summary of these two issues on the slides that I'm putting together for the presentation (last two slides at the moment). Comments are welcome, but beware that the document is likely to change quickly: https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1ucAIF3T7XPxcMZ-SJ3iWDEpLBZXFSWgnQmu7...
Thanks! Raff
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 9:09 PM, Elisa <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
In thinking about this a little more, I wanted to share something of the intense debate and reflection we have been applying to difficult questions, and I thought of selecting one, maybe two recent cases that have really challenged us, to point out what factors tend to guide our thinking process and cause us perhaps to reopen a ticket. I think featuring a ticket in which TEI community members were/are involved might be a good case in point: "How do we deliberate?" would be my angle, I think.
What tickets might be good to feature in such a discussion?
Elisa
Typeset by hand on my iPad
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:58 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar <ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
Sounds like a great plan to me—though I imagine the release process will come up in conversation, and I will think about a pithy way of describing that (if possible)! :-)
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org
On Sep 14, 2016, at 9:55 AM, Raffaele Viglianti < raffaeleviglianti@gmail.com> wrote:
I was planning on giving an overview of the council process around a ticket. The angle would be: "what happens when you think something is wrong with or missing from the TEI?" Basically describing the life of a bug report / feature request. I think that the fact that this kind of request can be submitted will be news to many. Both Elisa and I can pepper this with a more human account of our experience with this process and the council in general and conclude with some general remarks and questions form the audience. How does this sound? We could try and keep it around 10-15 minutes questions included?
I would not go into details for the release process instead, I think that's a bit less interesting to the general public and would take too much time from the hour.
On Wed, Sep 14, 2016 at 12:03 AM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar < ebbondar@gmail.com> wrote:
I’m okay with sharing 1) with Raff (if it’s okay with Raff), and it’ll help to have a sense of timing: How much time have we got? We can maybe each prepare a statement describing our experience of Council work—and I’m sure Raff’s is different from mine so far, so I think it’ll make for a good overview. Agreed that this is a good moment, perhaps after each of us has made a statement, to ask the audience what questions they have.
Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu <mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu> Development site: http://newtfire.org <http://newtfire.org/>
On Sep 13, 2016, at 9:25 PM, Hugh Cayless <philomousos@gmail.com> wrote:
We have volunteers for 1 (Raff, Elisa) and 2 (Lou). Any takers for 3? I can do it, but then someone else will need to moderate. I sympathize with James's feeling that he's already doing to much, and I share it!
As a reminder, the Google Doc is at https://docs.google.com/document/d/1E1SEMfxvhhm_ I9fAwFzOMXOl6mLy02o10aJWQt7BfhM/edit?usp=sharing
Raff and Elisa, are you comfortable sharing #1?
You'll have seen that Martin has a final draft of his white paper out. I think we'll need to address it one way of the other. If we're going to put out anything for comment to the wider TEI community, It should happen by the middle of next week, I'd say. Lou, if you wanted to make a case for the value of customization as a response to Martin's paper, I think that might be good. From my own perspective, customization wins, but maybe there are thousands of potential users out there who are put off by the complexity involved...
Raff and Elisa, it might be worth asking if there's anything people want to know about how Council works.
If I'm doing #3, I'll try to think of something... -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council
PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived
participants (7)
-
Elisa -
Elisa Beshero-Bondar -
Elisa Beshero-Bondar
-
Hugh Cayless -
James Cummings -
Lou Burnard -
Raffaele Viglianti