PS: Just to clarify about <persona>, I meant, it’s not on the list of elements we reviewed on the ticket, but I don’t think it should be a problem to remove the attributes from it. I *do* wonder about `<time>`, though. E -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org http://newtfire.org/

On Nov 19, 2017, at 10:34 PM, Elisa Beshero-Bondar wrote:

Hi Syd— I wonder if <time> is likely to raise questions, and whether people might want a little more explanation: Can we provide a better explanation of why this set of attributes isn’t appropriate for time? (I think we must have been considering <time> as analogous to <date>, but in the Guidelines we do use it to express duration which certainly seems a matter of measurement, so I’m now puzzling over why we were so confident this set of attributes shouldn’t apply to <time>.)

Also, just an annoying sidenote, but <persona> wasn’t on the list we reviewed on the ticket, though I don’t think it should be a problem to remove it. Perhaps that just merits a small sidenote in the explanation, as in: <persona> was not on the list of elements we originally discussed but discovered as Council investigated the issue.

Cheers from back home in Greensburg! Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org http://newtfire.org/

...

On Nov 19, 2017, at 7:47 PM, Syd Bauman mailto:s.bauman@northeastern.edu> wrote:

Here is draft language for your review before it is posted to TEI-L. Comments welcome.

--------- The TEI Technical Council plans to remove the following attributes:

atLeast=, atMost=, confidence=, extent=, max=, min=, precision=, quantity=, scope=, and unit=

from the following elements:

<affiliation>, <am>, <birth>, <climate>, <corr>, <date>, <death>, <education>, <event>, <expan>, <faith>, <floruit>, <geogName>, <langKnowledge>, <langKnown>, <location>, <name>, <nationality>, <occupation>, <org>, <orgName>, <origDate>, <origPlace>, <origin>, <persName>, <person>, <persona>, <place>, <placeName>, <reg>, <relation>, <residence>, <sex>, <socecStatus>, <terrain>, and <time>

These attributes (which are used for expressing a measurement or statistical information about a set) should never have been on these elements in the first place. Thus their presence is considered a corrigible error, and their removal is scheduled to take place at the next release (likely in Jan or Feb 2018) without a 2-year "deprecation" period, during which use of these attributes on these elements would cause a warning to occur.

If anyone is actually using one of these attributes on one of these elements, and its removal in future releases might be a hardship, please let us know by posting here or to the issue (https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/299 https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/299).

Thank you. --------- -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org mailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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Wait, Syd? <persona> is in the draft you just sent us to preview and comment on before posting to the TEI list. I just checked—<persona> is currently a member of att.dimensions and att.ranging: http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-persona.html http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/ref-persona.html, and I was just indicating that I think the decision to remove it from those classes makes sense and isn’t likely to be problematic, though it is not listed on ticket 299. Your explanation of <time> makes sense and helps a lot—it might help to clarify the limits of what we should be indicating with att.dimensions. Perhaps you might just say something like: While time is something measurable and quantifiable, the attributes in att.dimension and att.ranging are not appropriate here because temporal dimensions are handled in att.duration. Would that work and be helpful for people who (like all of us at one point or another) are conscious of measuring time? Thanks, Elisa -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu mailto:ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org http://newtfire.org/

On Nov 19, 2017, at 11:25 PM, Syd Bauman wrote:

Hi Elisa! Thanks for reading my post. Personally I'd prefer not to go into nitty-gritty on this post, and only go into detailed explanations if someone asks.

I don't think any of the attributes involved except perhaps @confidence make sense on <time>, and @confidence makes lots of sense on lots of things we don't put it on. (To be specific, atLeast=, atMost=, min=, max=, and quantity= are numbers, not durations; unit= and precision= are already expressed in the normalized value (e.g., when-iso=); scope= would only make sense if a <time> element were used to report a summary of observations of duration, which seems very unlikely; and extent= ... well, I suppose someday somebody might want a floppy way to express loose regularizations of durations, but it's hard to envision.)

As for the annoying side note, I don't think <persona> is relevant, as it is not a member of att.dimensions, so we could not remove it from that class.

...

Hi Syd— I wonder if <time> is likely to raise questions, and whether people might want a little more explanation: Can we provide a better explanation of why this set of attributes isn’t appropriate for time? (I think we must have been considering <time> as analogous to <date>, but in the Guidelines we do use it to express duration which certainly seems a matter of measurement, so I’m now puzzling over why we were so confident this set of attributes shouldn’t apply to <time>.)

Also, just an annoying sidenote, but <persona> wasn’t on the list we reviewed on the ticket, though I don’t think it should be a problem to remove it. Perhaps that just merits a small sidenote in the explanation, as in: <persona> was not on the list of elements we originally discussed but discovered as Council investigated the issue. -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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