Hi Martin, just a few thoughts: I like to emphasise the point of using explicit references for figures, examples etc. because I think the benefits outweigh the (additional) effort. Not only is this good practice for supporting multiple output formats (you already mentioned the PDF), but it also facilitates accessibility (e.g. audio browsers) in general, I believe. And it allows us to check these references, e.g. whether the example/figure is still there. Best Peter

Am 07.02.2021 um 07:08 schrieb Martin Holmes :

Hi Elisa,

When Syd and I were talking about this issue today, I confidently said that I couldn't imagine how a user agent would ever reposition an example so that "above" or "below" would end up being misleading. I was completely forgetting about the PDF, and you're absolutely right that this could happen, especially with images.

I think it's possible to stop it from happening in LaTeX, which might be a simpler solution, of course. But we should probably use explicit references to figures and examples through pointers and xml:ids, and have the build convert these into "Figure 1", "Example 2" etc.

But I also can't help wondering what use the PDF is to anyone these days. If we did a bit of work on the HTML stylesheet to make it more readable onscreen (a narrower text width being the main thing), and a bit more on the print stylesheet to make it reasonable to print small sections, we could probably get by without the PDF. It's a monstrous thing at this point.

Cheers, Martin

On 2021-02-06 7:53 p.m., Elisa Beshero-Bondar wrote:

...

Hi Syd, When I was grepping passages in the Guidelines with "preceding" and "following" language for #1884 about figures/tables/examples (https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/issues/1881) I was wondering how we could feasibly deal with rewriting the referencing of examples in particular. I too could not think of a clear alternative way with our current system. When this came up (I believe at a Council F2F in 2019) I think the issue was about the PDF rendering of the Guidelines not always displaying figures and tables (possibly examples?) in the same positions where we see them on the web due to page repositioning. Does this repositioning apply to examples *as well as* to figures and tables? (I hope it does not!) Elisa On Sat, Feb 6, 2021 at 4:49 PM Bauman, Syd mailto:s.bauman@northeastern.edu> wrote: Working on ruby glosses, I think it is quite useful to say in the prose of CO things like “the following example” or “the example above”. I note that the “Examples” subsection of the “Style Notes” section of TCW 20 https://teic.github.io/TCW/tcw20.html (why don’t these <div>s have IDs?) says in the very first paragraph /not/ to do that. However, it is clear to me that the rest of that paragraph is about examples in tagdocs, not examples in the prose of the /Guidelines/. Furthermore, I think the logic (someone might come along later and add an example) at best does not really apply here in the prose (where being able to differentiate examples is useful), and at worst is basically silly. (I very vaguely remember the argument in favor of this restriction, and begrudgingly agreeing to it; but I cannot find the reasoning that led me to that agreement now, nor can I recall if it was intended for only tagdocs or for examples in the prose, too :-) That said, why don’t we have a mechanism for referring to specific examples? _______________________________________________ Tei-council mailing list Tei-council@lists.tei-c.org mailto:Tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council -- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Program Chair of Digital Media, Arts, and Technology | Professor of Digital Humanities | Director of the Digital Humanities Lab at Penn State Erie, The Behrend College Development site: https://newtfire.org https://newtfire.org/ _______________________________________________ Tei-council mailing list Tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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