There's not a lot of point in conserving your archival history if you decide that some versions "don't really matter". The 0.* versions are as much a part of the continued evolution of P5 as the "official" releases, whatever that means. On 21/09/2019 18:07, Martin Holmes wrote:

Hi  Peter,

This looks fantastic. Thanks for putting in all the work to figure out the Zenodo API!

I would be inclined to say that version 0.x doesn't really matter. Those were not intended to be official releases, were they?

Cheers, Martin

On 2019-09-21 4:11 p.m., Peter Stadler wrote:

...

Hi all,

having a long train ride home from Graz I was looking into our TEI Zenodo publications of the Guidelines. Since we decided that we wanted all our published releases to show up at Zenodo and because these are quite a few I decided to write a little script rather than doing those uploads manually. I want to document here what I tested and what I’m about to do so you can stop me if it’s mad or something is missing. (BTW, Zenodo has a sandbox where I was testing my scripts)

#1 I have not found a way to directly upload to Zenodo from an URL so first I needed to download all the zip archives from Sourceforge (GitHub only has releases from 2.9.0 onwards) to my local machine #2 I wanted to use the HTML readme files we already have to use them as zenodo description (find them at https://www.tei-c.org/Vault/P5/current/doc/tei-p5-doc/) but needed to get rid of the HTML header etc. I was doing this with XSLT, see https://gist.github.com/peterstadler/a33df4f7cb3f1234c8f15d73a080a192 #3 needed to rename some of the readme files to get proper three digit version numbers #4 create a python script for adding our releases to zenodo, see https://gist.github.com/peterstadler/79d402bb989c8a066b482381979557a3

The whole process works quite nicely but will need some manual tweaking (of e.g. dates) afterwards (once I move from the sandbox to the real system). Because I will need to call the zenodo support after the ingestion to fix the sort order, I want to be sure that I have everything. NB: all the metadata can be changed afterwards but the files may not be touched anymore. Every new upload than creates a new version which will show up as the latest(!) So here are some questions:

a) At Sourceforge there is a release 0.9 while in the readme there is a 0.6 (but not vice versa). Is this just a typo somewhere and do these releases belong together?! b) There is some gap between 0.6 and 0.9 (or 1.0) and before 0.2.1. Does anyone have more releases anywhere? c) release notes are missing for 0.2.1 and 1.4.1

Many thanks for reading until the end Best Peter

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Hi Martin, thanks for the feedback and reminding me of the pre P5 world ;) So, for P5 I will start with version 1.0.0 and for P4 I will simply archive everything under Vault/P4 (except .svn and *~), which is drwxrwsr-x 5 tei psacln 4096 26. Apr 07:30 doc -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 6288 26. Apr 07:30 index.html drwxrwsr-x 3 tei psacln 4096 26. Apr 07:30 Lite -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 16284 26. Apr 07:30 migrate.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 14 26. Apr 07:30 p2.php -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 44474 26. Apr 07:30 p4dtd.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 44567 26. Apr 07:30 p4dtd.html~ -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 19315 26. Apr 07:30 p4top5.xsl -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 23224 26. Apr 07:30 pizza.html -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 23124 26. Apr 07:30 pizza.html~ drwxrwsr-x 6 tei psacln 4096 26. Apr 07:30 .svn -rw-r--r-- 1 tei psacln 1971698 26. Apr 07:30 teip4.tar.gz -rw-r--r-- 1 tei psacln 2820491 26. Apr 07:30 teip4.zip -rw-rw-r-- 1 tei psacln 104 26. Apr 07:30 test.html drwxrwsr-x 5 tei psacln 4096 26. Apr 07:30 xml is there only one version of P4? For P3: I only see the prose documentation linked at https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html. Are there no DTDs? Best Peter

Am 21.09.2019 um 19:28 schrieb Martin Holmes :

I was basing this on what's on our site:

https://tei-c.org/Guidelines/P5/#previous

If they don't deserve to be there, I don't know that it's important to archive them in Zenodo. But what does need to be there is the earlier stuff:

https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html

although since each version is different, that will have to be done manually.

Cheers, Martin

On 2019-09-21 7:21 p.m., Lou Burnard wrote:

...

There's not a lot of point in conserving your archival history if you decide that some versions "don't really matter". The 0.* versions are as much a part of the continued evolution of P5 as the "official" releases, whatever that means. On 21/09/2019 18:07, Martin Holmes wrote:

...

Hi Peter,

This looks fantastic. Thanks for putting in all the work to figure out the Zenodo API!

I would be inclined to say that version 0.x doesn't really matter. Those were not intended to be official releases, were they?

Cheers, Martin

On 2019-09-21 4:11 p.m., Peter Stadler wrote:

...

Hi all,

having a long train ride home from Graz I was looking into our TEI Zenodo publications of the Guidelines. Since we decided that we wanted all our published releases to show up at Zenodo and because these are quite a few I decided to write a little script rather than doing those uploads manually. I want to document here what I tested and what I’m about to do so you can stop me if it’s mad or something is missing. (BTW, Zenodo has a sandbox where I was testing my scripts)

#1 I have not found a way to directly upload to Zenodo from an URL so first I needed to download all the zip archives from Sourceforge (GitHub only has releases from 2.9.0 onwards) to my local machine #2 I wanted to use the HTML readme files we already have to use them as zenodo description (find them at https://www.tei-c.org/Vault/P5/current/doc/tei-p5-doc/) but needed to get rid of the HTML header etc. I was doing this with XSLT, see https://gist.github.com/peterstadler/a33df4f7cb3f1234c8f15d73a080a192 #3 needed to rename some of the readme files to get proper three digit version numbers #4 create a python script for adding our releases to zenodo, see https://gist.github.com/peterstadler/79d402bb989c8a066b482381979557a3

The whole process works quite nicely but will need some manual tweaking (of e.g. dates) afterwards (once I move from the sandbox to the real system). Because I will need to call the zenodo support after the ingestion to fix the sort order, I want to be sure that I have everything. NB: all the metadata can be changed afterwards but the files may not be touched anymore. Every new upload than creates a new version which will show up as the latest(!) So here are some questions:

a) At Sourceforge there is a release 0.9 while in the readme there is a 0.6 (but not vice versa). Is this just a typo somewhere and do these releases belong together?! b) There is some gap between 0.6 and 0.9 (or 1.0) and before 0.2.1. Does anyone have more releases anywhere? c) release notes are missing for 0.2.1 and 1.4.1

Many thanks for reading until the end Best Peter

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Sorry for the noise, I should be reading before posting … * There is TEI P3 draft (only published on paper), which is teip3doc.tar.gz (dating from April 8, 1994 as it states in p3front.doc – yet, in the later documents it says 16 May 1994?) * There is TEI P3 final revision, which has teip3dtd.tar.gz, teip3html.tar.gz, teip3p3x.tar.gz, and p4beta.pdf (dating from May 1999), I will put this under P3, not P4beta, right? Institutional memory needs to be revisited frequently to keep it alive … Best Peter

Am 23.09.2019 um 08:36 schrieb Peter Stadler :

Signierter PGP-Teil

...

Am 23.09.2019 um 08:32 schrieb Peter Stadler :

For P3: I only see the prose documentation linked at https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html. Are there no DTDs? I think I found it myself at Vault/GL/ – there are the files teip3doc.tar.gz, teip3dtd.tar.gz, teip3html.tar.gz which should probably be in the Zenodo archive, right?

Dear all, another zenodo related question while I was working on manually adding the pre-P5 versions: Shall the P1–4 Guidelines be zenodo objects on their own or shall they be subsumed as old versions of the P5 Guidelines? Pro (separate object): * version history is clean, e.g. P5 starts with "v1.0.0", not "P1, v?“; otherwise: does the P5 versions need to be prefixed with P5? Cons * old versions of the Guidelines show up in search results for e.g. „TEI Guidelines“ (which could be marked as „outdated“ or „superseded“ but still people will come across these old versions) I’m a little bit in favour of having separate zenodo objects and already prepared those (see screenshot). Yet, I want to get your feedback on this and will happily nuke these drafts :) NB: All the metadata (license, authors, etc.) can be overwritten for versions as well as for separate objects. But it’s impossible to delete a zenodo object once it's published. Best Peter

Am 23.09.2019 um 11:30 schrieb Lou Burnard :

The documentation at https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html is fairly clear, I think.

There is the original teip3 version dating from April 1994, and the major revision of it published as teip4-beta. The differences are quite substantial, (including, for example, the addition of the <ab> element) but it is still in SGML. The "p4beta" version was intended to be usable either in SGML or XML, but I agree that it belongs properly under P3, as the last line of its preface indicates.

Happy to have a closer look when I am not preoccupied with preparing for tomorrow's training session here in Budapest... but basically, I'd suggest, archive everything.

L

On 23/09/2019 08:02, Peter Stadler wrote:

...

Sorry for the noise, I should be reading before posting …

* There is TEI P3 draft (only published on paper), which is teip3doc.tar.gz (dating from April 8, 1994 as it states in p3front.doc – yet, in the later documents it says 16 May 1994?) * There is TEI P3 final revision, which has teip3dtd.tar.gz, teip3html.tar.gz, teip3p3x.tar.gz, and p4beta.pdf (dating from May 1999), I will put this under P3, not P4beta, right?

Institutional memory needs to be revisited frequently to keep it alive …

Best Peter

...

Am 23.09.2019 um 08:36 schrieb Peter Stadler mailto:pstadler@mail.uni-paderborn.de:

Signierter PGP-Teil

...

Am 23.09.2019 um 08:32 schrieb Peter Stadler mailto:pstadler@mail.uni-paderborn.de:

For P3: I only see the prose documentation linked at https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html. Are there no DTDs? I think I found it myself at Vault/GL/ – there are the files teip3doc.tar.gz, teip3dtd.tar.gz, teip3html.tar.gz which should probably be in the Zenodo archive, right?

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Of course we don't want to have to update such a pointer every time there's a new release... E On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 6:08 AM Elisa Beshero-Bondar wrote:

Only replying first because due to jet lag I happen to be online...I think I like these being separate objects since people sometimes want to access historical versions of the Guidelines as resources in their own right, but we need a careful marking strategy as you suggest. Can/should each of the separate objects also contain a pointer to the current Guidelines?

Elisa

On Wed, Sep 25, 2019 at 6:02 AM Peter Stadler < pstadler@mail.uni-paderborn.de> wrote:

...

Dear all,

another zenodo related question while I was working on manually adding the pre-P5 versions: Shall the P1–4 Guidelines be zenodo objects on their own or shall they be subsumed as old versions of the P5 Guidelines?

Pro (separate object): * version history is clean, e.g. P5 starts with "v1.0.0", not "P1, v?“; otherwise: does the P5 versions need to be prefixed with P5?

Cons * old versions of the Guidelines show up in search results for e.g. „TEI Guidelines“ (which could be marked as „outdated“ or „superseded“ but still people will come across these old versions)

I’m a little bit in favour of having separate zenodo objects and already prepared those (see screenshot). Yet, I want to get your feedback on this and will happily nuke these drafts :)

NB: All the metadata (license, authors, etc.) can be overwritten for versions as well as for separate objects. But it’s impossible to delete a zenodo object once it's published.

Best Peter

Am 23.09.2019 um 11:30 schrieb Lou Burnard

...

:

The documentation at https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html is fairly clear, I think.

There is the original teip3 version dating from April 1994, and the major revision of it published as teip4-beta. The differences are quite substantial, (including, for example, the addition of the <ab> element) but it is still in SGML. The "p4beta" version was intended to be usable either in SGML or XML, but I agree that it belongs properly under P3, as the last line of its preface indicates.

Happy to have a closer look when I am not preoccupied with preparing for tomorrow's training session here in Budapest... but basically, I'd suggest, archive everything.

L On 23/09/2019 08:02, Peter Stadler wrote:

Sorry for the noise, I should be reading before posting …

* There is TEI P3 draft (only published on paper), which is teip3doc.tar.gz (dating from April 8, 1994 as it states in p3front.doc – yet, in the later documents it says 16 May 1994?) * There is TEI P3 final revision, which has teip3dtd.tar.gz, teip3html.tar.gz, teip3p3x.tar.gz, and p4beta.pdf (dating from May 1999), I will put this under P3, not P4beta, right?

Institutional memory needs to be revisited frequently to keep it alive …

Best Peter

Am 23.09.2019 um 08:36 schrieb Peter Stadler :

Signierter PGP-Teil

Am 23.09.2019 um 08:32 schrieb Peter Stadler :

For P3: I only see the prose documentation linked at https://tei-c.org/Vault/Vault-GL.html. Are there no DTDs?

I think I found it myself at Vault/GL/ – there are the files teip3doc.tar.gz, teip3dtd.tar.gz, teip3html.tar.gz which should probably be in the Zenodo archive, right?

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-- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org

-- Elisa Beshero-Bondar, PhD Director, Center for the Digital Text | Associate Professor of English University of Pittsburgh at Greensburg | Humanities Division 150 Finoli Drive Greensburg, PA 15601 USA E-mail: ebb8@pitt.edu Development site: http://newtfire.org