processing model use of CSS

Lou Burnard

5 Feb 2016 5 Feb '16

1:34 p.m.

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

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James Cummings

5 Feb 5 Feb

1:58 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish. Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening. -J On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

...

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

Magdalena Turska

2:24 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue. Magdalena On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings wrote:

...

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

...
Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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Lou Burnard

2:30 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how? Sent from my Honor Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC: I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue. Magdalena On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings wrote:

...

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

...
Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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Magdalena Turska

2:45 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess. M On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard wrote:

...

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings wrote:

...
I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical

use a

...
different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

...
Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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James Cummings

2:52 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute? -James On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote:

...

And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard wrote:

...
So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings wrote:

...
I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

...
Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

Magdalena Turska

3 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition. [*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings wrote:

...

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote:

...
And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my

...
output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right?

...
That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical

use a

...
different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly

...
assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to

see

...
how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather

...
vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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James Cummings

3:04 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

That is indeed a good point. James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford -----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition. [*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote: That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute? -James On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess. M On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote: So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how? Sent from my Honor Mobile -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC: I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue. Magdalena On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote: I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish. Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening. -J On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote: Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS) -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.ukmailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived -- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.ukmailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived

Lou Burnard

7:11 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities: a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it." b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD" On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

...

That is indeed a good point.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.ukmailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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Raffaele Viglianti

7:15 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be allowed to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

...

So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

...
That is indeed a good point.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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Raffaele Viglianti

7:16 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

(Also I think this reveals why I have been a little uncomfortable with including the processing module to ODD: it makes ODD much more focused to text and certain textual technologies than what it used to be) On Feb 5, 2016 1:15 PM, "Raffaele Viglianti" wrote:

...

I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be allowed to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

...
So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

...
That is indeed a good point.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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Lou Burnard

7:22 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So that sounds like a vote for providing @scheme on <outputRendition> (whatever Magdalena says below) ? On 05/02/16 18:16, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:

...

(Also I think this reveals why I have been a little uncomfortable with including the processing module to ODD: it makes ODD much more focused to text and certain textual technologies than what it used to be) On Feb 5, 2016 1:15 PM, "Raffaele Viglianti" wrote:

...
I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be allowed to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

...
So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

...
That is indeed a good point.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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Raffaele Viglianti

7:23 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

Yes On Feb 5, 2016 1:22 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

...

So that sounds like a vote for providing @scheme on <outputRendition> (whatever Magdalena says below) ?

On 05/02/16 18:16, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:

...
(Also I think this reveals why I have been a little uncomfortable with including the processing module to ODD: it makes ODD much more focused to text and certain textual technologies than what it used to be) On Feb 5, 2016 1:15 PM, "Raffaele Viglianti"
...
wrote:

I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be allowed

...
to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

...
a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

That is indeed a good point.

...
James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings < James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings < James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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--

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James Cummings

7:28 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

Hi all, My suggestion is that if you want to set it generally you can do this in header and then override it for any model by using @scheme on outputRendition. That seems most extensible of all. TEI doesn't necessarily produce Stylesheets to process that of course. And only weird ppl like MEI'ers and Syd will use it. ;-)

...

From train,

James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford -----Original Message----- From: Lou Burnard [lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 18:22 To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS So that sounds like a vote for providing @scheme on <outputRendition> (whatever Magdalena says below) ? On 05/02/16 18:16, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:

...

(Also I think this reveals why I have been a little uncomfortable with including the processing module to ODD: it makes ODD much more focused to text and certain textual technologies than what it used to be) On Feb 5, 2016 1:15 PM, "Raffaele Viglianti" wrote:

...
I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be allowed to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

...
So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

...
That is indeed a good point.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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Lou Burnard

7:34 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So I read that as a second vote for adding @scheme to <outputRendition> What incidentally if there is no <styleDefDecl> in your ODD's header? Do we assume CSS, or is it an error? Presumably if your <rendition> uses @scheme="x" and your <outputRendition> uses @scheme="y" and also @useSourceRendition is true, then all bets are off, do not pass go, do not collect 200 pounds? It would be nice to see a worked example for Raff's (entirely plausible) use case below. On 05/02/16 18:28, James Cummings wrote:

...

Hi all,

My suggestion is that if you want to set it generally you can do this in header and then override it for any model by using @scheme on outputRendition. That seems most extensible of all. TEI doesn't necessarily produce Stylesheets to process that of course.

And only weird ppl like MEI'ers and Syd will use it. ;-)

From train,

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Lou Burnard [lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 18:22 To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So that sounds like a vote for providing @scheme on <outputRendition> (whatever Magdalena says below) ?

On 05/02/16 18:16, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:

...
(Also I think this reveals why I have been a little uncomfortable with including the processing module to ODD: it makes ODD much more focused to text and certain textual technologies than what it used to be) On Feb 5, 2016 1:15 PM, "Raffaele Viglianti" wrote:

...
I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be allowed to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

...
So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

...
That is indeed a good point.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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James Cummings

7:39 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

I'd assume css because we do that with rendition don't we? I also assume if you use something other than css you are smart enough to write your own processing. James -- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford -----Original Message----- From: Lou Burnard [lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 18:34 To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS So I read that as a second vote for adding @scheme to <outputRendition> What incidentally if there is no <styleDefDecl> in your ODD's header? Do we assume CSS, or is it an error? Presumably if your <rendition> uses @scheme="x" and your <outputRendition> uses @scheme="y" and also @useSourceRendition is true, then all bets are off, do not pass go, do not collect 200 pounds? It would be nice to see a worked example for Raff's (entirely plausible) use case below. On 05/02/16 18:28, James Cummings wrote:

...

Hi all,

My suggestion is that if you want to set it generally you can do this in header and then override it for any model by using @scheme on outputRendition. That seems most extensible of all. TEI doesn't necessarily produce Stylesheets to process that of course.

And only weird ppl like MEI'ers and Syd will use it. ;-)

From train,

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Lou Burnard [lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 18:22 To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So that sounds like a vote for providing @scheme on <outputRendition> (whatever Magdalena says below) ?

On 05/02/16 18:16, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:

...
(Also I think this reveals why I have been a little uncomfortable with including the processing module to ODD: it makes ODD much more focused to text and certain textual technologies than what it used to be) On Feb 5, 2016 1:15 PM, "Raffaele Viglianti" wrote:

...
I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be allowed to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

...
So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

...
That is indeed a good point.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

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Lou Burnard

7:46 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

I can't find anywhere that that assumption is explicitly documented in the Guidelines. We could add it, of course. We do say rather firmly that although the TEI allows you to specify multiple style languages, we don't think you should use more than one ("For ease of processing, it is strongly recommended to use a single such language throughout an encoding project, although the TEI system permits a mixture." (http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/HD.html#HD57-1a) On 05/02/16 18:39, James Cummings wrote:

...

I'd assume css because we do that with rendition don't we? I also assume if you use something other than css you are smart enough to write your own processing.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Lou Burnard [lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 18:34 To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So I read that as a second vote for adding @scheme to <outputRendition>

What incidentally if there is no <styleDefDecl> in your ODD's header? Do we assume CSS, or is it an error?

Presumably if your <rendition> uses @scheme="x" and your <outputRendition> uses @scheme="y" and also @useSourceRendition is true, then all bets are off, do not pass go, do not collect 200 pounds?

It would be nice to see a worked example for Raff's (entirely plausible) use case below.

On 05/02/16 18:28, James Cummings wrote:

...
Hi all,

My suggestion is that if you want to set it generally you can do this in header and then override it for any model by using @scheme on outputRendition. That seems most extensible of all. TEI doesn't necessarily produce Stylesheets to process that of course.

And only weird ppl like MEI'ers and Syd will use it. ;-)

From train,

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Lou Burnard [lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 18:22 To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So that sounds like a vote for providing @scheme on <outputRendition> (whatever Magdalena says below) ?

On 05/02/16 18:16, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:

...
(Also I think this reveals why I have been a little uncomfortable with including the processing module to ODD: it makes ODD much more focused to text and certain textual technologies than what it used to be) On Feb 5, 2016 1:15 PM, "Raffaele Viglianti" wrote:

...
I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be allowed to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

...
So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

...
That is indeed a good point.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise it's just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every model/outputRendition.

[*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually

On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall correctly. So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute?

-James

On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the same place might be good for our purpose I guess.

M

On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express my output renditiond" and how?

Sent from my Honor Mobile

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS From: Magdalena Turska To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org CC:

I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps mentioning this is the only option that current implementations support, though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning implementation at all, so won't press the issue.

Magdalena

On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> right? That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical use a different formally declared style language if you wish.

Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the train back from Leeds tomorrow evening.

-J

On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote:

Decision please. The current description of the processing model tacitly assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard to see how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is rather vague on the topic. Should we say a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use CSS If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity to the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS)

-- Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk Academic IT Services, University of Oxford

-- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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Magdalena Turska

8:16 p.m.

New subject: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

I started to write: 'I would be tempted to go for 1 atm. Let them who want to use something else plead their case? ;-)' But then Raff just made his case I guess. Therefore I support general declaration in the header plus overrides via model/outputRendition/@scheme On 5 February 2016 at 18:46, Lou Burnard wrote:

...

I can't find anywhere that that assumption is explicitly documented in the Guidelines. We could add it, of course.

We do say rather firmly that although the TEI allows you to specify multiple style languages, we don't think you should use more than one ("For ease of processing, it is strongly recommended to use a single such language throughout an encoding project, although the TEI system permits a mixture." ( http://www.tei-c.org/release/doc/tei-p5-doc/en/html/HD.html#HD57-1a)

On 05/02/16 18:39, James Cummings wrote:

...
I'd assume css because we do that with rendition don't we? I also assume if you use something other than css you are smart enough to write your own processing.

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Lou Burnard [lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 18:34 To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So I read that as a second vote for adding @scheme to <outputRendition>

What incidentally if there is no <styleDefDecl> in your ODD's header? Do we assume CSS, or is it an error?

Presumably if your <rendition> uses @scheme="x" and your <outputRendition> uses @scheme="y" and also @useSourceRendition is true, then all bets are off, do not pass go, do not collect 200 pounds?

It would be nice to see a worked example for Raff's (entirely plausible) use case below.

On 05/02/16 18:28, James Cummings wrote:

...
Hi all,

My suggestion is that if you want to set it generally you can do this in header and then override it for any model by using @scheme on outputRendition. That seems most extensible of all. TEI doesn't necessarily produce Stylesheets to process that of course.

And only weird ppl like MEI'ers and Syd will use it. ;-)

From train,

James

-- Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford

-----Original Message----- From: Lou Burnard [lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk] Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 18:22 To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS

So that sounds like a vote for providing @scheme on <outputRendition> (whatever Magdalena says below) ?

On 05/02/16 18:16, Raffaele Viglianti wrote:

...
(Also I think this reveals why I have been a little uncomfortable with including the processing module to ODD: it makes ODD much more focused to text and certain textual technologies than what it used to be) On Feb 5, 2016 1:15 PM, "Raffaele Viglianti" < raffaeleviglianti@gmail.com> wrote:

I'd say b. But I don't think it should be only global. I should be

...
allowed to define one of my many rendition statements in a different format. Practical example: one rendition deal with music notation instead of text, therefore CSS won't do. All others deal with text and CSS is just fine. On Feb 5, 2016 1:11 PM, "Lou Burnard" wrote:

So how do we proceed. I see only two possibilities:

...
a) we say "It's CSS. Live with it."

b) We say "We strongly recommend using CSS, but if you want to use something else, then you must say what it is using <styleDefDecl> in the Header of your ODD"

On 05/02/16 14:04, James Cummings wrote:

That is indeed a good point. > > James > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, Academic IT, University of Oxford > > -----Original Message----- > From: Magdalena Turska [tuurma@gmail.com] > Received: Friday, 05 Feb 2016, 14:00 > To: James Cummings [james.cummings@it.ox.ac.uk]; > tei-council@lists.tei-c.org [tei-council@lists.tei-c.org] > Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS > > God* forbid! I guess it should be declared once per ODD, otherwise > it's > just madness to allow different CSS-like language on every > model/outputRendition. > > [*] deity (or non-deity) of choice, actually > > On 5 February 2016 at 13:52, James Cummings < > James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk > mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> wrote: > > That is with a @scheme attribute on <rendition> if I recall > correctly. > So should outputRendition have a @scheme attribute? > > -James > > > On 05/02/16 13:45, Magdalena Turska wrote: > And where does one state what one uses for @rendition? Logically the > same > place might be good for our purpose I guess. > > M > > On 5 February 2016 at 13:30, Lou Burnard < > lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk > mailto:lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> > wrote: > > So where do I say in my ODd "watch out I am using SPitbol to express > my > output renditiond" and how? > > Sent from my Honor Mobile > > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [tei-council] processing model use of CSS > From: Magdalena Turska > To: tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org > CC: > > I would go with 'b', recommended but other options possible. Perhaps > mentioning this is the only option that current implementations > support, > though I do note that Guidelines are actually not mentioning > implementation > at all, so won't press the issue. > > Magdalena > > On 5 February 2016 at 12:58, James Cummings < > James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk > mailto:James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> > wrote: > > I would go with 'b', which I believe is cognate with <rendition> > right? > That we recommend CSS, all our examples use it, but you can technical > use a > different formally declared style language if you wish. > > Sorry I've not converted my ODDs to pure ODD yet. Will try on the > train > back from Leeds tomorrow evening. > > -J > > On 05/02/16 12:34, Lou Burnard wrote: > > Decision please. The current description of the processing model > tacitly > assumes that CSS is used to express output rendition, and it's hard > to > see > how else the job would be done, but the text of the Guidelines is > rather > vague on the topic. Should we say > a) outputRendition *must* be expressed using CSS > b) it is *recommended* that CSS be used > c) we don't care what you use, but our examples assume you will use > CSS > If we choose b or c, we will presumably need to add some complexity > to > the scheme (e.g. to say what has been used instead if it's not CSS) > > > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> Academic IT Services, > University of Oxford > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org > http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org > http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org > http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > > -- > Dr James Cummings, James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk James.Cummings@it.ox.ac.uk> Academic IT Services, University of > Oxford > -- > tei-council mailing list > tei-council@lists.tei-c.orgmailto:tei-council@lists.tei-c.org > http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council > > PLEASE NOTE: postings to this list are publicly archived > > > -- tei-council mailing list tei-council@lists.tei-c.org http://lists.lists.tei-c.org/mailman/listinfo/tei-council

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James Cummings
James Cummings
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processing model use of CSS

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