Re: [tei-council] [TEI] examples combines @from with @notAfter (#1331)

Actually, now I think about it, it's worse. Your example assumes everything is a period of time, but many datable things are points in time, for which @from and @to are fairly meaningless. <death from="1900" to="1901"/> means someone took a very long time dying and is not the same as <death notafter="1901" notBefore="1900"/> My rule of thumb is that @notBefore and @notAfter should be used only to indicate a point in time (alone or in combination); only if there is a @from or @to present can we assume we're talking about a period of time. So if we want to express a period of time with an uncertain start AND end, either we need an extra pair of attributes (please, no), or we require the presence of @dur (so "a period of about 4 weeks between this vague date and that vague date"), or we just have to live with the fact that a date supplying @notBefore and @notAfter is inherently ambiguous as to whether it means some point in time or some span of time. On 15/03/16 16:08, Lou Burnard wrote:

Precisely. A 2d matrix can't cope with four variables...

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-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [tei-council] [TEI] examples combines @from with @notAfter (#1331) From: Hugh Cayless To: TEI Council CC:

Just so I understand then:

@from + @notBefore and @notAfter means "certain start; uncertain end, between nB & nA" @from + @notBefore means "certain start; uncertain end, but after nB" @from + @notAfter means "certain start; uncertain end, but before nA" @notBefore and @notAfter + @to means "uncertain start, between nB and nA; certain end" @notBefore + @to means "uncertain start, but after nB; certain end" @notAfter + @to means "uncertain start, but before nA; certain end" @from + @to means "certain start; certain end" presumably then, @notBefore + notAfter can mean either "uncertain start, but after nB; uncertain end, but before nA" or "uncertain start, but before nA; uncertain end, but after nB", depending on whether nB > nA or vice versa.

I think we need a bigger table...

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:34 AM, Lou Burnard wrote:

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Not sure... but in any case, I think the prose is right.

On 15/03/16 15:32, Hugh Cayless wrote:

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The prose is new too, isn't it?

On Tue, Mar 15, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Lou Burnard < lou.burnard@retired.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

I'd suggest removing the table for the moment. It doesn't express what the

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prose says and the prose was there first.

On 15/03/16 15:27, Syd Bauman wrote:

I'll take a look in a few hours ...

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In the meantime, did I commit my changes to TD and constrantSpec.xml properly?

1) The example immediately following the table contradicts the

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information in the table in http://teic.github.io/TEI/ND.html#NDATTSda, because it has `@from`, `@notBefore`, and `@notAfter`.

2) Also, there's a French [example](

https://github.com/TEIC/TEI/blob/dev/P5/Source/Specs/att.datable.w3c.xml#L91 ) that uses `@when` in conjunction with `@notBefore` and `@notAfter`. I've switched the checks that enforce usage as outlined in the table to warnings, but we must fix `#1` and we should either remove the example in `#2` or change our minds about whether it's ok.

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