Re: [tei-council] Simple : victory declared, going home.

Dear Lou, sorry for the delay...

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: I would find it useful to have a full example (including the TEI header) in addition to the "Short Example" e.g. at the end of the document. Yes, possibly a good idea. Has anyone got a suggestion?

Why not expand the Jane Eyre example with the TEI Header?

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:: Footnote 1: which XML tutorial should be referred to? Suggestions welcomed! Aside from the Gentle Guide in the Guidelines of course. There's plenty to choose from.

How about W3 Schools Tutorial: http://www.w3schools.com/xml/ and W3C Specification: http://www.w3.org/TR/xml

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:: The following elements and attributes are mentioned at various places in the text, even though they are not part of TEI Simple. I would suggest to either take those elements out all together or make clear that they are included for the sake of completeness, but not part of TEI Simple (which is already done in some cases). : @ulx/@uly etc. isn't explained in 14. Encoding a digital facsimile No, I couldn't face it. But it does refer you to the chapter in the GL where these attributes are explained, I think

It's the last example in chapter 14. It doesn't refer to the chapter, but there is a hint that further information can be found in the full Guidelines. So I agree, it is findable.

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: the <TEI> specification mentions model.resourceLike class. At this point, classes have not been explained. It think that would be necessary at the beginning of the document. That's quite a big ask.... Might be better to skirt the issue in a Simple tutorial?

Hm, I think that a general hint, just to mention modules and classes, would be sufficient. For example something like the second paragraph in the TEI Infrastructure Module: "The TEI encoding scheme consists of a number of modules, each of which declares particular XML elements and their attributes. Part of an element's declaration includes its assignment to one or more element classes. Another part defines its possible content and attributes with reference to these classes. This indirection gives the TEI system much of its strength and its flexibility..."

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:: Things that I wouldn't consider 'simple', but I'm sure these have : @part in 3.3.2. Drama What is your suggestion though? Not use the example? Not use @part ?

First I thought of not using @part in the example, but meanwhile I have reconsidered. I think it should stay as it is.

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: @role for <table> in 8 Table, especially the values 'sum' and 'total'. There isn't even an example in the full TEI Guidelines. An example of what?

I meant that there is no example of using the values 'sum' and 'total' in the full GL. But the description is probably sufficient. What I noticed is that e.g. the specification of <author> in TEI Simple contains a note where @key is described, which isn't part of Simple. Also, the code example uses <persName> as child of <author>, which isn't part of Simple either. This may confuse the user of TEI Simple. But I assume that this is difficult to handle, since the examples are taken from the GL...? See you soon in Vienna! Martina -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tei-council-bounces@lists.tei-c.org [mailto:tei-council-bounces@lists.tei-c.org] Im Auftrag von Lou Burnard Gesendet: Freitag, 19. August 2016 17:55 An: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org; Martin Mueller Betreff: Re: [tei-council] Simple : victory declared, going home. Dear Martina Many thanks for your careful reading and correction. I held off commenting on the issues you raise in the hope that some other Council members might want to contribute, but since they haven't, I've added some quick reactions below. Some progress has been made on getting processing model info to appear in the reference doc, tx Hugh. So we are now waiting for someone to try generating and testing the schema, with some collection of allegedly Simple files.... On 14/08/16 12:20, Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger@uni-graz.at) wrote:

:: Short Example: : The last sentence of the first paragraph is unclear, I don't understand what "the former" and "the latter" actually refers to.

(I think this is a rhetorical gesture called "chiasmus"). The "former" refers to "characters for which equivalent not available on the keyboard"; the "latter" to "typographic distinctions not readily accessible". But if others are equally puzzled by this, certainly let us find a better way of expressing the idea.

: I would find it useful to have a full example (including the TEI header) in addition to the "Short Example" e.g. at the end of the document.

Yes, possibly a good idea. Has anyone got a suggestion?

:: Footnote 1: which XML tutorial should be referred to?

Suggestions welcomed! Aside from the Gentle Guide in the Guidelines of course. There's plenty to choose from.

:: The following elements are listed as part of the TEI Simple schema, but there is no further explanation of them in the document. Some elements are used in an example. char (used in an example) charDecl charName (used in an example) charProp desc (used in an example) glyph glyphName handNote localName mapping (used in an example) unicodeName value

These are all header elements used to document gaiji characters. I should have added a new section to the header chapter to introduce at least some of them: mea culpa. If no-one else volunteers I can do this next week.

:: The following elements and attributes are mentioned at various places in the text, even though they are not part of TEI Simple. I would suggest to either take those elements out all together or make clear that they are included for the sake of completeness, but not part of TEI Simple (which is already done in some cases). : <sourceDoc>

Added a sentence saying that we don't discuss it.

: <term> : <gloss> Ah yes. Good catch. Killed the offending sentence. The example needs to be replaced with a better one too, but I haven't done that yet. : <index> (isn't described above as claimed in 13.2.1.; not clear) Another good catch. Killed. : @ulx/@uly etc. isn't explained in 14. Encoding a digital facsimile No, I couldn't face it. But it does refer you to the chapter in the GL where these attributes are explained, I think : <mentioned> (made clear that it is not part of Simple) : <said> (made clear that it is not part of Simple) OK, added phrase to that effect

:: Some examples use elements, which are a) not explained in the document (or explained at a later point), b) not part of TEI Simple : 3.3.2 Drama contains <emph> which isn't part of Simple

Ooops. It's gone.

: 3.5.3 Foreign Words or Expressions: <s> is used in the second example but explained several pages later. Good point. Turned them into <p>s : 4.2. Omissions: @reason and @hand are used in the example but aren't further discussed.

That example stinks. I've changed it

The same applies to <desc> and <term> in the following examples. Fixed <term>. <desc> is defined in TEI Simple, but I dont seem to have done a specDesc for it. To be fixed.

Also <name> and <date> are used, which are covered at a later point in TEI Simple.

Added sentence to reassure the anxious reader.

:: 2 Structure : the <TEI> specification mentions model.resourceLike class. At this point, classes have not been explained. It think that would be necessary at the beginning of the document.

That's quite a big ask.... Might be better to skirt the issue in a Simple tutorial?

:: 4.1. The transcription example (Henry V) claims that there is the phrase "Table of green feelds", however, in figure 1 it actually says "Table of greene fields". So, while the example is actually nice, it doesn't refer to the original (figure 1)...

Aaargh! Fixed.

:: 5.1. Names and Referring Strings The last example contains @key attributes, I'd change this to @ref since @key isn't described and @ref fulfills the same purpose. By the way, I changed <sic> to <orig> in the example.

Yes to @ref rather than @key. The example is not a good one though.

:: Things that I wouldn't consider 'simple', but I'm sure these have been discussed before (several times) : <biblFull> in 7 Bibliographic Citation

I wanted to axe it, but I was told it is all over EEBO/TCP

: @part in 3.3.2. Drama What is your suggestion though? Not use the example? Not use @part ? : @role for <table> in 8 Table, especially the values 'sum' and 'total'. There isn't even an example in the full TEI Guidelines.

An example of what?

: The TEI header section is very extensive and complex. I would suggest to at least put the examples in their context for better orientation by adding the parent element. For example it is unclear where to actually put the <extent> element (15.1.3 The Extent Statement)

I see your point. It does tell you where it goes in the content model though.

:: The simple case to align text and facsimile is explained twice, almost identically, once at the end of 3.4 Page and Line Numbers and another time at the end of 9 Figures and Graphics.

Hm, not quite identically, but the wording could certainly be simplified.

:: I added a suggestion for the missing @type values of <name> at the end of chapter 11 (please have a look at it). Would it make sense to use the same values as the element names in the full TEI Guidelines, e.g. genName etc.?

I dont have an opinion, but if we change anything here, we must remember to change the valList where they are listed in the ODD source.

:: PDF and HTML output : The line breaks in the examples on the PDF are coming out very weird, is there anything that can be done to remedy that?

Possibly...

: the values (<val>) in the TEI Guidelines are displayed in simple quotation marks, but not in TEI Simple : the attributes are not displayed with a preceding @ in the PDF

Finding a nice stylesheet for a document like this is always a problem...

Best, Martina

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Martin Mueller [mailto:martinmueller@northwestern.edu] Gesendet: Freitag, 12. August 2016 13:50 An: Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger@uni-graz.at); tei-council@lists.tei-c.org Betreff: Re: AW: [tei-council] Simple : victory declared, going home.

Martina,

Lou deserves a break. If you send your list to me, I will follow up from there.

MM Martin Mueller

Professor emeritus of English and Classics Northwestern University

On 8/12/16 12:03 AM, "Scholger, Martina (martina.scholger@uni-graz.at)" wrote:

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Dear Lou,

I read the first 60 pages of the TEI Simple document. What is the best way to give you my remarks?

First of all, the whole document is written very comprehensible and will be a great start into the TEI world!

I'd suggest to correct typos, punctuations, formatting, spellings etc. by myself in the version on GIT and then send you the issues where I have remarks and suggestions but which require some discussion or decision on your part as PDF?

Issues I would fix myself, if you agree: : Typos and punctuation : encoding errors (e.g. values that aren't encoded as <val>) : Spellings (e.g. standardized and standardised - since in the Guidelines everything is written with the "z" spelling, I'd suggest doing the same in TEI Simple) : Capitalization (TEI header, TEI scheme, TEI Simple, Processing Model, TEI Guidelines) : Remove indentation after code examples, lists, etc.

Best, Martina

-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: tei-council-bounces@lists.tei-c.org [mailto:tei-council-bounces@lists.tei-c.org] Im Auftrag von Lou Burnard Gesendet: Donnerstag, 28. Juli 2016 19:24 An: tei-council@lists.tei-c.org; Martin Mueller Betreff: [tei-council] Simple : victory declared, going home.

I have now made all the changes I've so far identified as necessary to the TEI Simple Exemplar, and checked in a semi-final version for Council to review. It needs someone, not me, to read it carefully and nit-pickingly, or at least the first sixty pages or so pages of it. And it needs someone to do some testing of the schema. And it needs someone to fix the stylesheets so that the processing model info contained in the ODD is displayed in HTML/PDF outputs.

The ODD source is, as per usual, in the repository at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_TEIC_TE I_b lob_d9f349185b6a7263990c3c6fccc93567eb675e8e_P5_Exemplars_tei-5Fsimple. odd &d=CwIFAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=rG8zxOdssqSzD Rz4 x1GLlmLOW60xyVXydxwnJZpkxbk&m=EhVssORjMVfEc0-HfeERETaDqNF4nwVxWRSS7_AKm 8c& s=ApEg4VMCz1FL9vX_8c9cLG5oGn3UxYgrL9M5_1W2Qsk&e=

The RELAXNG schema is at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__github.com_TEIC_TE I_b lob_d9f349185b6a7263990c3c6fccc93567eb675e8e_P5_Exemplars_tei-5Fsimple. rnc &d=CwIFAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=rG8zxOdssqSzD Rz4 x1GLlmLOW60xyVXydxwnJZpkxbk&m=EhVssORjMVfEc0-HfeERETaDqNF4nwVxWRSS7_AKm 8c& s=sV7jjGN72Z4No9BCBJa9ZQjAkRCyk9Dm02w5rOqGyJ4&e=

I also have a massive HTML version, and a massive PDF version, which for the moment I have just bunged into my personal webspace at https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lb42.github.io_tei- 5Fs imple.html&d=CwIFAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r=rG8 zxO dssqSzDRz4x1GLlmLOW60xyVXydxwnJZpkxbk&m=EhVssORjMVfEc0-HfeERETaDqNF4nwV xWR SS7_AKm8c&s=3tpf0_gmXjpeo9wgd-4GH57bU5NuC3sqPpl-idBX70I&e= and https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__lb42.github.io_tei- 5Fs imple.odd.pdf&d=CwIFAw&c=yHlS04HhBraes5BQ9ueu5zKhE7rtNXt_d012z2PA6ws&r= rG8 zxOdssqSzDRz4x1GLlmLOW60xyVXydxwnJZpkxbk&m=EhVssORjMVfEc0-HfeERETaDqNF4 nwV xWRSS7_AKm8c&s=q3xnsfaL_hvxCEYHO8TAHaUvsaos1Np9dYwrSzpbHFY&e= respectively. (Yes, I know the graphics dont show up in the HTML version)

I look forward to Council's feedback as to whether this is (as I devoutly hope) now (nearly) ready for prime time.

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