Re: [Indic-texts] encoding/transcribing the bhale symbol

In the Harvard project, Pingree's assistants had transcribed it as 90. We changed it to om with an added note that it was bhale. I just now read Bhattacharya’s article which argues that it represents siddham or siddhir astu. I found the argument plausible but not entirely convincing, and found Kielhorn’s remark, cited on p. 204, more likely. Have you come across any work that is more conclusive? I copy my notes on Bhattacharya’s article, together with its Biblatex bibliography, below. Yours, Peter @article{bhattacharya.bhale, title = {The <r>Bale</r> symbol of the Jainas}, author = {Gouriswar Bhattacharya}, date = {1995}, journaltitle = {Berliner Indologische Studien}, volume = {8}, pages = {201--228}, } % Argues that the symbol which looks in two figures like 90 symbolizes <r>sidDaM</r> or <r>sidDir astu</r>. However, he [204]{bhattacharya.bhale} cites Kielhorn, ``The sign for 9 is generally the old sign for <s>oM</s>, but in one or two MSS. the <r>{a}anusvAra</r> is omitted. [ldots] That the sign for 9 is nothing but the syllable <s>oM</s>, is clear also from the fact that many Sanskrit MSS. begin with what looks like <s>90</s>, but is really the word <s>oM</s>. In most MSS. <s>oM</s> is repeated after the sign <s>oM</s>, because the meaning of the latter had ceased to be understood.'' Bhattacharya continues, ``But Kielhorn was wrong. Neither the sign for 9, nor `what looks like <s>90</s>' stands for \textit{<r>oM</r>}.'' He then cites Albiruni who seems to corroborate what Kielhorn wrote. Then he continues, ``Poor Al Biruni had no occasion to know that the simple image was not invented by the Hindus, but by the Buddhists and the Jainas. Klaus Bruhn's suggestion, cited on p. 201 note 2, that Gujarati \textit{bhale} is derived from Sanskrit \textit{<r>Badram</r>} is correct. Yours, Peter ****************************** Peter M. Scharf, President The Sanskrit Library scharf@sanskritlibrary.org mailto:scharf@sanskritlibrary.org https://sanskritlibrary.org https://sanskritlibrary.org/ ******************************

On 2 Nov 2019, at 1:52 PM, Camillo Formigatti mailto:camillo.formigatti@bodleian.ox.ac.uk> wrote:

Dear Charlie and Andrew,

I'm fact, in the Cambridge project we tagged the bhale with <g>. We also have a list of tagged symbols, but again, I think it would be better to coordinate the efforts.

Best wishes,

Camillo

Sent from my Xperia by Sony smartphone

---- Andrew Ollett wrote ----

Charles,

Regarding setting up a section on the Indic Texts Wiki https://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/SIG:IndicTexts: please do feel free. You will need to register, but I don't think you need to be a TEI member to register.

I think the DHARMA project has plans to create a list of such symbols, which would presumably be represented by the <g> element in EpiDoc editions. Whether and how those symbols would be displayed is a different matter. I suppose the options are (a) represent the symbol as it is found in the document, with an image; (b) represent the symbol with a "standard form" (e.g., the "Jain Om" included in the Unicode standard; for symbols like bhale, this is more complicated); or (c) represent the symbol with something like "(bhale symbol)," making no attempt to copy its form. Does anyone have preferences or experiences with any of these options?

Andrew https://wiki.tei-c.org/index.php/SIG:IndicTexts On Fri, Nov 1, 2019 at 2:23 PM Charles Li mailto:cchli@cantab.net> wrote: Hi all,

Just wondering if anyone has been encoding/transcribing the bhale symbol, and how you represent it. It doesn't seem to have made it into Unicode yet.

As a follow-up to that, I was wondering if it was possible to set up a section of IndicTexts TEIWiki to document encoding/transcribing practices in current and past projects. I've thought a few times about putting together a document that just lists the different ways people have transcribed pṛṣṭhamātrās, virāmas, etc. that isn't covered in any specification.

Best,

Charles

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